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Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

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Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#111

Post by nervousvarun »

fermiNitambh wrote: post #81
barrenko wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coffee is a plant demon that created the western civilization as we know it today...

I like this worldview. Prior to coffee, Europe was in the grip of the beer dwarves. Coffee demons took over and invented nationalism, capitalism and Keynesian economics.

Obligatory recommendation for: Uncommon Grounds: The History of Coffee and How it Transformed our World by Mark Pendergrast

Fantastic book. I first encountered it...in a coffee shop :) Read a chapter and immediately bought the book for myself.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#112

Post by Noaidi »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

Yes, same here. I have schizoaffective disorder and realizing that caffeine affected my mental health so drastically was the beginning of my recovery journey 30 years ago. I can use caffeine now as a drug when I need it. Same with alcohol.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#113

Post by nervousvarun »

yetihehe wrote: post #93
apples_oranges wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, I drink it a lot and then stop drinking it at least once a year for a few weeks, and for sure it's a different mode of mind, but can't really qualify it besides that I remember my thinking being softer, calmer and perhaps even "more correct" without coffee. (But I never had any mental-health incidents, and I drink a lot of it, more than all people that I personally know.)

For many years I go to the same vacation spot (kayaking in the most beautiful nature place I have seen) and go cold-turkey. I didn't notice any side effects of lack of coffee besides slower muddier thinking. After I go back and start drinking coffee, feel back to normal. I also had a very big life altering mental health incident very recently, drank A LOT of coffee during and I feel it helped, now I am much more calm…

Consider yourself lucky...You are one of these mythical creatures who don't get migraines from caffeine withdrawal. My wife is the same.

When I quit I get splitting headaches that are way more severe than a typical tension headache. Completely debilitating without medication. Get them for a week or so (also get the muddier thinking but I could live with that).

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#114

Post by Noaidi »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #77
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

Quitting caffeine after decades of use was a bit of a mixed bag for me in the short term, but positive in the long term. Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings for high carbs and sugar now, presumably this is related to the impulsivity impact talked about in the paper. Going caffeine-free also made me very depressed for a while with severe anhedonia, this lasted way longer…

You may have naturally low dopamine production or release (or low ATP or GTP). Everyone will react differently because genetics so you are right, everyone needs to be mindful of their reaction.

You might want to look at this pathway, and the enzymes, and the cofactors for these enzymes:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Pingyuan-Gong/publicati...

Tyrosine 3-monooxygenase (TH) needs Iron

Aromatic-L-amino-acid decarboxylase (DDC) needs B6

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#115

Post by randusername »

bayarearefugee wrote: post #77
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #38

After habitually consuming caffeine (not in coffee form) daily, usually multiple times a day, for more than a decade, a horrible mental health incident happened to me that forced me to stop it for a while. Afterwards I didn't resume the habit, and so I no longer have a tolerance. This has let me evaluate what caffeine does with fresh eyes, so to say, because I can now consume it occasionally while having many non-caf…

Quitting caffeine after decades of use was a bit of a mixed bag for me in the short term, but positive in the long term. Going caffeine-free made it much easier to lose weight as I have far less cravings for high carbs and sugar now, presumably this is related to the impulsivity impact talked about in the paper. Going caffeine-free also made me very depressed for a while with severe anhedonia, this lasted way longer…

I experienced a similar anhedonia when quitting caffeine. I don't think the caffeine itself was the problem, I think it was just helping a lot more than I knew with the inertia of circling the pit without tottering in.

Turns out I needed stimulants from time to time, just not that one.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#116

Post by dgllghr »

I switched from caffeine (coffee) to theacrine (pills) and I like it so much more. I feel alert and focused without added anxiety. It doesn’t seem to affect my sleep at all. I really didn’t like how hard it was to quit coffee.

I don’t like that it’s a pill. I tried making my own theacrine drinks, but theacrine is so bitter that I never found one that I liked. I am still haunted by the chicory + theacrine drink I made…

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#117

Post by throwatdem12311 »

adammarples wrote: post #107
throwatdem12311 wrote: post #103

Caffeine is an extremely potent drug. It’s actually kind of crazy to think that a large portion of a country’s population could be “high” on it basically all of the time. And there is a huge industry in place for delivering said drug to as many people as possible by having it available on almost every street corner. And that most people take a fairly non-chalant attitude to giving this drug to kids through sweet drin…

This week as I tried to lower my coffee usage or stop altogether, I had dropped from 3 cups a day to 1. That one suddenly started to make me feel noticeably high, like a bump of cocaine in the morning. I realised that I craved it in the same way and it clicked for me - coffee is literally just a drug I like to take by myself and read the newspaper. It's no different. It's the first thing I think of in the morning bec…

I went from 60oz per day to 36oz. I went from perpetually stimulated to basically on stimulated during work hours. Even with a minor cutback, I’ve noticed the change in potency of an individual dose as well.

My next goal is to cut back to one fully caffeinated drink in the moring and then doing decaf the rest of the day.

The ritualistic habit is the hardest thing to break for me. Also the social aspect of “let’s go for coffee” with friends, family, spouse etc…

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#118

Post by SecretDreams »

fedeb95 wrote: post #55

thirty-one participants were moderate coffee-drinkers (CD, i.e., people that usually consume between 3 to 5 cups of coffee per day). 3-5 is moderate? To me, 3 is already high. Also, sample size is pretty low and they're all Irish.

I drink a small cup in the morning (like 250 ml) and 1-2 Moka pot espressos (like one shot). This typically happens between 7-10am. No more coffee after that most of the time. I like to keep it in the morning routine with breakfast. Green tea and water in my afternoons.

Personally, I don't feel any kind of "drug like" effects from this routine. I wonder about the strength of coffee people are drinking and the effects of drinking throughout the day rather than just the morning.

Anecdotally, during grad school I drank more per serving and throughout the day, and I certainly felt quite different than my current routine.

Like most things, I think people need to find some moderation/balance.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#119

Post by fc417fc802 »

kristofferR wrote: post #87
fedeb95 wrote: post #55

thirty-one participants were moderate coffee-drinkers (CD, i.e., people that usually consume between 3 to 5 cups of coffee per day). 3-5 is moderate? To me, 3 is already high. Also, sample size is pretty low and they're all Irish.

This study is Irish, so I think they likely use 170ml cups? That means a normal mug of ~500ml is 3 cups. Perhaps they even use US coffee cup size, which is 118ml? Honestly, using an unit of measurement that varies from 118ml to 250ml in a scientific paper brings the whole paper into question.

The reactions to your comment got me curious enough to check. The mug I use for coffee and tea holds almost exactly 400 mL when comfortably full and I used to drink 2 of those per day (across 12 hours or so). Based on that, personally I'd consider ~800 mL of black coffee to be on the high end of moderate consumption.

Re: Habitual coffee intake shapes the microbiome, modifies physiology and cognition

#120

Post by SecretDreams »

ashirviskas wrote: post #99
kristofferR wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This study is Irish, so I think they likely use 170ml cups? That means a normal mug of ~500ml is 3 cups. Perhaps they even use US coffee cup size, which is 118ml? Honestly, using an unit of measurement that varies from 118ml to 250ml in a scientific paper brings the whole paper into question.

Does it matter what size the cup is? Usually you get the same amount of coffee water + additional water/milk/whatever.

????
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