Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

craigmod.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 210 posts

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#111

Post by dangus »

pxeboot wrote: post #90
dangus wrote: post #89

I grow tired of the MacBook Neo gloating and almost like a light version of bragging in articles like this. It's coded as a critique of the iPad but it feels a lot more like "I'm typing this on a MacBook Neo and it's oh soo amazing!" Apple is essentially selling the modern version of the eMac, and I would say the Neo is almost as bad of a purchase as that product. The real selling point of the device is that it's new…

> If you actually go to the used market, it's easy to find a gently used machine that is much better. A huge percentage of the population (at least in the US) is completely unwilling to buy any used consumer products. For some it is the ick factor, for others it is fear of being scammed. > Any MacBook Air with an M2 and 16GB of RAM is a better purchase. Is this really a better alternative if it stops getting macOS up…

It seems like macOS updates have a lot more to do with underlying hardware and specs than year of release alone.

Going back to the iPhone 5C example, that phone lost updates much earlier than the 5S released the same year because it didn’t support 64-bit processors.

There are also a number of Intel and PowerPC systems that weren’t supported long due to architecture transitions.

I could very easily imagine a future version of macOS only being available on systems that shipped with 16GB of RAM.

Although on the other hand, I think Apple decides on support based on userbase as well. I imagine if they find a device is barely used or don’t sell well in the first place they would perhaps be more likely to drop support.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#112

Post by jmyeet »

So I agree the iPad range is more complicated than it needs to be but I'm not as enthralled by the Macbook Neo as the author.

For one thing, a base iPad is US$349. Sure you need a keyboard too but it is less than $599. And the core of the Macbook Neo is a previous generation iPhone chip whereas the latest iPad has an M14.

If anything, a better melding of these product lines looka a lot more like the Huawei Mate Book Fold [1].

My biggest issue with Apple's current lineup is actually Face ID. I dearly love my iPad Air because it's about the last Apple device I own that still uses Touch ID.

Nobody will change my mind about Face ID. It's terrible. I'm fine if others want to use it. But please just put Touch ID on the button like the iPad Air on every device, particularly the iPhone.

Face ID terrible for visually impaired people who have to look closer at the screen. This is a common cause for Face ID failures where you have to move the device away from your face for it to work. And you rack up false posiitves this way. Apple is way too zealous with how many false negatives force a passcode entry. I know in the Touch ID entry I barely have to use my passcode. With my current iPhone I have to use it many times a day.

And then Face ID just fails all the time in low light conditions such that you have to light up your face with an external light to make it work. The iPad's screen light by itself isn't enough.

So much for "seamless".

So if you solved this problem there's no real reason to separate the iPad Pro and iPad Air lines.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvXZQ4Tv-pY

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#113

Post by basisword »

christophilus wrote: post #30
steveBK123 wrote: post #21

I've used Mac for 20 years and iPad on&off for 10 years.. largely I agree with Craig. Touch on MacOS is basically useless, you won't realize this until you try using an iPad like a MacBook for an extended period of time. Reaching up from keyboard/trackpad to touch the screen quickly gets fatiguing. It is not ergonomic. The iPad is meant to be used in touch mode while in your hands generally. If they were brave they'd…

This is why I’ve never understood the demand for a touchscreen on a laptop. All of my non-Mac laptops have touchscreens, and I basically never use the touch feature except by accident (e.g. a kid pointing and asking a question and causing some code to highlight).

It was one of those basic things Jobs was right about years ago when people were clamouring for it. Holding your arm out to a laptop screen is tiring and pointless. If only they'd stuck with his other bit os wisdom that phone screens should be small enough to use one handed.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#114

Post by zozbot234 »

dredmorbius wrote: post #102
zozbot234 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Touchscreens suck for text manipulation. Works fine with gestural input a.k.a. the old Graffiti format, originally from Palm.

That worked with a stylus rather than fingertip input. The stylus has a finer point-resolution than a finger, making for more effective touch actions. I do miss my old PalmOS devices....

Plenty of tablets and touchscreens support stylus input though, including Apple Pencil.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#115

Post by chocochunks »

steveBK123 wrote: post #48
paulcole wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not productivity/coding! You don’t think a non-artist, non-coder can be productive on an iPad? Some jobs are heavily writing, reading, email/messaging, meetings, etc. Feel link those people can do quite well with an iPad, no?

Typing is subpar next to a Mac so by the time you put the case on it and are in similar size/weight class, for same/MORE money .. why bother with iPad ?

There's no pen input on a Mac, it's only really usable in one orientation and so sucks for reading more than a page or two of a PDF. Tablets are WAY more flexible in form factor. Apple unfortunately cripples the software, but I'd rather have a device that's 100% better at pen input and bunch of tasks that's 30% worse at typing.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#116

Post by zozbot234 »

Fwirt wrote: post #94
QuiEgo wrote: post #81

My dream is having an “app” on ipadOS that switches out userland from ipadOS to macOS when launched. Let them be two silos, containers, VMs, whatever. Only allow “Mac mode” if you have a keyboard and monitor attached. Hell, automatically “sleep” it if you undock. Make it unapologetically keyboard-and-mouse first. One UI for keyboard/mouse. A second UI for touch. One device that can do it all. That’s the dream. I feel…

Touch and mouse are two very distinct forms of input that need to be kept separate. Every convertible Windows laptop I have ever used has convinced me of that. Mouse interfaces can be incredibly information dense because mice are both incredibly economic from a space and motion standpoint, and also somehow incredibly precise. You can flick your wrist to select any target the size of a grain of rice on a 32" screen. T…

> Mouse interfaces can be incredibly information dense because mice are both incredibly economic from a space and motion standpoint, and also somehow incredibly precise. ...

There's exactly one feature of touch interfaces that can be incredibly input-information dense, easily rivaling the mouse, and that's swiping gestures with 1-to-1 fluid animation for feedback. Usually seen with pie menus and the like. Drag and drop, the mouse equivalent, is extremely clunky - and mouse gestures that don't even involve clicking even more so.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#117

Post by tonyarkles »

rocketvole wrote: post #66
steveBK123 wrote: post #21

I've used Mac for 20 years and iPad on&off for 10 years.. largely I agree with Craig. Touch on MacOS is basically useless, you won't realize this until you try using an iPad like a MacBook for an extended period of time. Reaching up from keyboard/trackpad to touch the screen quickly gets fatiguing. It is not ergonomic. The iPad is meant to be used in touch mode while in your hands generally. If they were brave they'd…

From the perspective of someone with a touchscreen windows device, I agree. I rarely used the touchscreen not because it wasnt useful, but because it was unwieldy on windows. I bought a 2 in 1 and the experience is much better, simply because i can detach the keyboard and use it as a massive tablet. its not as fluid as an ipad, but most of the time its simply mildly annoying to get to the app/browser i want, then I s…

> I bought a 2 in 1 and the experience is much better, simply because i can detach the keyboard and use it as a massive tablet. its not as fluid as an ipad, but most of the time its simply mildly annoying to get to the app/browser i want, then I scroll and tap the same way I would on an Ipad. On my regular touchscreen laptop, I have to lift my fingers to use the interface, which simply adds delay for... the ability to scroll a pdf, afaik.

I have a work Lenovo Yoga and have a similar experience with the 2-in-1. I actually appreciate that I can fold the keyboard all the way back under and use it as a tablet. I'll sometimes use that for doing document reviews on the couch. I've also used it folded, hmmm, 290 degrees or so as a touch interface for some monitoring software. Windows seems to have some APIs that will report to applications when it switches into tablet mode and applications that auto-switch their UI to have bigger buttons etc are quite appreciated.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#118

Post by ValentineC »

jmyeet wrote: post #112

So I agree the iPad range is more complicated than it needs to be but I'm not as enthralled by the Macbook Neo as the author. For one thing, a base iPad is US$349. Sure you need a keyboard too but it is less than $599. And the core of the Macbook Neo is a previous generation iPhone chip whereas the latest iPad has an M14. If anything, a better melding of these product lines looka a lot more like the Huawei Mate Book…

> And then Face ID just fails all the time in low light conditions such that you have to light up your face with an external light to make it work. The iPad's screen light by itself isn't enough.

I've managed to unlock my iPhone in a pitch-dark bedroom just fine, for many years now.

It uses infrared dots, not visible light, unlike some of the Android implementations.

Re: MacBook Neo and how the iPad should be

#119

Post by analog31 »

christophilus wrote: post #30
steveBK123 wrote: post #21

I've used Mac for 20 years and iPad on&off for 10 years.. largely I agree with Craig. Touch on MacOS is basically useless, you won't realize this until you try using an iPad like a MacBook for an extended period of time. Reaching up from keyboard/trackpad to touch the screen quickly gets fatiguing. It is not ergonomic. The iPad is meant to be used in touch mode while in your hands generally. If they were brave they'd…

This is why I’ve never understood the demand for a touchscreen on a laptop. All of my non-Mac laptops have touchscreens, and I basically never use the touch feature except by accident (e.g. a kid pointing and asking a question and causing some code to highlight).

For me it's vision and physical ergonomics. The GUI and mouse did great things for computing, but were never strictly safe from an ergonomic standpoint, and I see a lot of people walking around with carpal tunnel braces. Especially CAD operators and computer programmers.

After trying it out roughly every year, Ubuntu finally seems to have fairly transparent touch screen support, and I've given up on Windows. At a comfortable reading distance, with the laptop actually on my lap (as I'm typing now), I can reach out and touch the screen more easily and comfortably than manipulating the trackpad.

Getting good at this didn't happen overnight, and its behavior isn't identical to my Android or Apple tablets.

Precise cursor positioning is hit or miss, but it is with the mouse too. In either case, I usually get as close as I can, and then move the cursor with the arrow keys. Precise mouse work also gives me eyestrain headaches.

I can only do limited programming on the laptop anyway because the screen is too small. It could be that I'm a freak because I fall into the divide in between how people "should" use laptops and tablets. The programmers do think I'm a freak.

Post reply on HN