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Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

nytimes.com

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Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#111

Post by uyzstvqs »

nyanmatt wrote: post #27

I don’t see how. Have you ever tried calling one of these lines in a suicide emergency? Things I’ve learned in California: - an ambulance will not be dispatched unless you physically witness someone trying to kill themselves - otherwise, they send the police - the police arrive without training and severely escalate the situation - the person having an emergency will be taken into custody and stripped of rights until…

Well that's just not true. You're supposed to call 911 if you witness someone else in crisis, not the crisis hotline. The police will be sent because they have baseline training in de-escalation, and they have officers with specialized training in crisis negotiation. An ambulance is relevant only if someone is already hurt. They're medical professionals. Even in that situation, police officers are usually dispatched to investigate and to keep the ambulance personnel safe in a potentially unpredictable environment. And you're correct, protective custody exists and it's there to keep the person in crisis safe.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#112

Post by mmcdermott »

ceejayoz wrote: post #108
mmcdermott wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deep expertise is not a blank check for funding. There is only so much money to go around and at some point you have to articulate your value to those paying for it (in this case, the tax payers and their representatives). Yes, this means a high level summary generally focused on ends rather than the gory details of the means. An expert acting in good faith should be able to provide this or, in the spirit of the Feyn…

> Deep expertise is not a blank check for funding. Sure. But the people vetting your proposals should have useful expertise in assessing it. Individual grant proposals for scientific research should essentially never be something a congressional rep is deciding on. Someone needs to assess, say, the B-21's radar absorbent coating project, but it'd be a mistake to think some random pediatrician is the right one to do i…

> something a congressional rep is deciding on.

Congress does not, by and large, get down to that level. They are typically approving a line time that encompasses a form of lump sum (i.e. "$100 million to NSF across these categories").

You can see the budget request here: https://www.nsf.gov/about/budget/fy2026

Defense spending would typically be a gruesome bidding process.

But either way, your proposal must at some point speak to something a generalist would understand. And that is how it should be - anything else is taxation without representation.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#113

Post by bjourne »

ceejayoz wrote: post #5

About a year ago: https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/trump-shuts-down-lg... > The Trump administration on Thursday afternoon officially terminated the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline’s LGBTQ Youth Specialized Services program, which gave callers under age 25 the option to speak with LGBTQ-trained counselors. As with the USAID cuts, this killed people.

That's pure evil.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#114

Post by ceejayoz »

mmcdermott wrote: post #112
ceejayoz wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Deep expertise is not a blank check for funding. Sure. But the people vetting your proposals should have useful expertise in assessing it. Individual grant proposals for scientific research should essentially never be something a congressional rep is deciding on. Someone needs to assess, say, the B-21's radar absorbent coating project, but it'd be a mistake to think some random pediatrician is the right one to do i…

> something a congressional rep is deciding on. Congress does not, by and large, get down to that level. They are typically approving a line time that encompasses a form of lump sum (i.e. "$100 million to NSF across these categories"). You can see the budget request here: https://www.nsf.gov/about/budget/fy2026 Defense spending would typically be a gruesome bidding process. But either way, your proposal must at some…

> Congress does not, by and large, get down to that level.

Oh, they love to do precisely that.

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/media/reps/dr-paul-delivers-ope...

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/11/senator-misleads-absurd-sc...

> But either way, your proposal must at some point speak to something a generalist would understand.

A competent generalist, sure. But we've gone and given significant veto power to random Twitter influencers like @libsoftiktok.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#115

Post by mystraline »

dlev_pika wrote: post #97
hirvi74 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> however take at least as much care for your grandparents, they are apparently at extreme risk, of forming intent and, acting especially grandpa. What if allowing suicide is taking care of one's grandparents? After all, if I was diagnosed with a awful condition like Alzheimer's, ALS, etc.. I am absolutely going out that way once I start having more bad days than good days.

That’s why we have laws protecting end of life rights in Oregon - which are much preferred over millions of firearms in the hands of ‘rEsPoNsIbLe gun oWnErS’, impulsive and impaired decision making, and someone walking into a traumatic mess coming back home.

Most of the rest of states use hospice as a way to kill people with morphine. Basically they give the patient as much as they want, and usually stops their heart.

Naturally, medically assisted suicide is illegal in most states. But its wink wink nudge nudge "pain management".

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#116

Post by NoMoreNicksLeft »

uyzstvqs wrote: post #111
nyanmatt wrote: post #27

I don’t see how. Have you ever tried calling one of these lines in a suicide emergency? Things I’ve learned in California: - an ambulance will not be dispatched unless you physically witness someone trying to kill themselves - otherwise, they send the police - the police arrive without training and severely escalate the situation - the person having an emergency will be taken into custody and stripped of rights until…

Well that's just not true. You're supposed to call 911 if you witness someone else in crisis, not the crisis hotline. The police will be sent because they have baseline training in de-escalation, and they have officers with specialized training in crisis negotiation. An ambulance is relevant only if someone is already hurt. They're medical professionals. Even in that situation, police officers are usually dispatched…

>The police will be sent because they have baseline training in de-escalation

There are something like 30,000+ police agencies across the United States, and a proportional number within California (if we're talking about that place in particular and not more generally). To say "they have baseline training in de-escalation" is, at best, wishful thinking. While no doubt some departments make that a part of their training and within those departments most patrol officers will have undergone the training (enough that your statement wouldn't be especially incorrect if you were to specify one of those departments), it is beyond fallacious to assume that this holds true for all of them in general.

Even when the training does exist and the officer has completed it, it consists of a one or two day seminar. They are not evaluated in a way that some pass and some fail. We do not know who took it seriously, and who thought it was some jackass bleeding-heart bullshit that they could ignore. We do not know if those anyone gains by it... if some are good at it afterward and others are bad at de-escalation afterward, has that percentage shifted upwards compared to whatever their pre-training scores would suggest?

I do not believe you when you fallaciously assert "they have baseline training". No one else should believe you either, if the answer actually matters to them. I do not know why you assert this, and the speculation ranges from "not a good reason" to "even worse reasons".

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#117

Post by spwa4 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #104
spwa4 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't claim they are. And even if my experience is a 1% case, you still need to make people aware they're a possibility. And it's far more than 1%.

You didn't say possibility, though. You said things like "Never ever, ever" and "It's lies, cheats and deception on their part, nothing more". I have no doubt that forcible confinement is unfun. I also have no doubt that it's sometimes warranted and the best thing for someone to be able to heal. That you once menaced a social worker into quitting is not, I think, evidence against that.

The social worker in question forced confinement on children, when I was one, and got to experience her own tactics firsthand. Her reaction to her own tactics was indeed to quit the job entirely, the second she got loose. Of course, the same courtesy was NOT afforded to the children there. They got locked up, yelled and screamed for hours, then were simply locked up again. There was no exit, other than violence. Which, of course, led to extreme violence and constant escalation.

These assholes and idiots that call themselves social workers themselves can't themselves deal with the tactics they use on children. In fact they can't deal with 1% of the intensity of the tactics they use on children, because I assure you not having an exit for weeks after a few hours screaming out your lungs in a small room really 10x the stress. Then, 5 minutes later, seeing one kid using a knife on another, again just to get out of there, ANOTHER good way to 10x the stress.

As for "the best thing for someone to be able to heal", you mean forcing kids into an environment with constant violence? Both among kids, a bunch of adults using violence against kids, occasionally extreme violence from kids against those adults, and violence from the situation/facility itself? (or how else would you describe confinement?)

That's some social workers' way to deal with psychic vulnerability, and the potential consequence of asking for help with your vulnerability as a child, or, as in my case, a teacher "getting help" for a vulnerable child. Is that "the best thing for someone to be able to heal"? It certainly didn't prevent suicide or suicidal thoughts, and had the complete opposite of the "intended" effect when it was used on drug addicts, and anorexic patients.

(oh and extreme violence WAS the way out. Once these social workers really did totally lose control, they'd "solve" the problem by sending the kid home. In fact, some they literally shoved onto the sidewalk. And of course, the second advantage of going out that way was that you would never be "asked" to return)

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#118

Post by ceejayoz »

spwa4 wrote: post #117
ceejayoz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't say possibility, though. You said things like "Never ever, ever" and "It's lies, cheats and deception on their part, nothing more". I have no doubt that forcible confinement is unfun. I also have no doubt that it's sometimes warranted and the best thing for someone to be able to heal. That you once menaced a social worker into quitting is not, I think, evidence against that.

The social worker in question forced confinement on children, when I was one, and got to experience her own tactics firsthand. Her reaction to her own tactics was indeed to quit the job entirely, the second she got loose. Of course, the same courtesy was NOT afforded to the children there. They got locked up, yelled and screamed for hours, then were simply locked up again. There was no exit, other than violence. Whic…

> The social worker in question forced confinement on children…

Sure. Because they needed it. (And there are a lot of social workers at much lower acuities than forensic psych wards for violent kids.)

Kids don't like getting vaccinations, either, but stabbing the pediatrician in revenge is clearly not the solution to that. The pediatrician doesn't need a polio booster.

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#119

Post by ceejayoz »

renewiltord wrote: post #88

[flagged]

> All I know is that if I call this, they're going to wellness-check me...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/will-988-call-the-police-data-s...

"Many people in mental health crisis fear that if they dial 988, law enforcement might show up or they might be forced to go to the hospital. But getting sent that kind of 'involuntary emergency rescue' happens to around 1% of callers, suggests new data from Vibrant Emotional Health, the administrator of the 988 Lifeline for suicide and mental health crises."

Re: Youth Suicides Declined After Creation of National Hotline

#120

Post by [deleted] »

spwa4 wrote: post #117
ceejayoz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn't say possibility, though. You said things like "Never ever, ever" and "It's lies, cheats and deception on their part, nothing more". I have no doubt that forcible confinement is unfun. I also have no doubt that it's sometimes warranted and the best thing for someone to be able to heal. That you once menaced a social worker into quitting is not, I think, evidence against that.

The social worker in question forced confinement on children, when I was one, and got to experience her own tactics firsthand. Her reaction to her own tactics was indeed to quit the job entirely, the second she got loose. Of course, the same courtesy was NOT afforded to the children there. They got locked up, yelled and screamed for hours, then were simply locked up again. There was no exit, other than violence. Whic…

[deleted]
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