Live data from Hacker News

The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

respublica.media

111–120 of 213 posts

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#111
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a section of the article covering precisely this, headed "The external actors: arms to both sides"

It is not covered in anywhere the same level of detail, in my opinion.

I appreciate your feedback and understand your criticism. I'll be sure to add more detail in future analyses. My main goal was to draw attention to this matter.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#112
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I do not know who it is "we", but Trump is certainly NOT trying to stop sending soldiers abroad. Instead, it is using them to attack Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, boats on the see cause killing is fun and to threaten Greenland. Iran is completely pointless and expensive war in particular. Also, pressuring Ukraine to give up more territory then Russia took is NOT "stopping to mess in other peoples affairs" either. Also, what…

[flagged]

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#113
post #47

Let's be honest. If someone did send in the troops to restore order, people would be screaming "How dare you invade a sovereign country" or "You're only doing this because you want oil" or "The President wants to make Sudan the 51st state" or "You're wasting money and soldiers' lives messing around in a place most of us can't even put on a map" or "You're just doing whatever the Jews tell you to do."

No one is saying the US should send troops to Sudan. But it has made the situation for civilians much much worse by gutting USAID, and it could flex its might to force diplomatic solutions to end the fighting, but it's not.

If Sudan had oil though, we'd probably have already see the US militarily involved.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#114
post #8
post #2

[flagged]

And you will be held as responsible for exploiting the country if you do actually manage to end the conflict and bring about positive economic change. People don't understand that it takes generations to train a populace to work in a functioning economy. Sudan would probably need 25 years of colonization before you had competent Sudanese to run all parts of a modern economy. You can't just go in, stop the fighting, a…

Ok, I HAD to create an account to respond to this one.

Like 99.99% of this continent, Sudan was under colonial rule. And it lasted nearly sixty years if you only count the British one (The Ottomans had a sting earlier).

Now I do fancy myself anti-imperialist, but even I cannot deny that the Brits did all that. They established systems, trained generations of locals, and left a decent seed for a competent state and economy. But still, here we are!

One could argue that this “intervention” was itself a cause of this civil war. Stitching a country out of completely different -and perhaps even incompatible- racial and ethnic elements a great deal of which don’t even recognise any political borders, leave one dictated by an outsider, wasn’t exactly going to end any other way.

Personally, while I do believe the Brits share the blame, I don’t assign them much of it. This hellhole had been ruled by its people for 68 years now, during which we’ve repeated the same weak democracy-junta cycle three times (four if you count the last transitional gov). The ability to notice patterns is like entry-level human skill…

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#115
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not know who it is "we", but Trump is certainly NOT trying to stop sending soldiers abroad. Instead, it is using them to attack Venezuela, Iran, Cuba, boats on the see cause killing is fun and to threaten Greenland. Iran is completely pointless and expensive war in particular. Also, pressuring Ukraine to give up more territory then Russia took is NOT "stopping to mess in other peoples affairs" either. Also, what…

[flagged]

The US is too large to pretend it can be isolationist.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#116

I feel like I have seen better analysis of this elsewhere. In a nutshell, it is not simply a civil war. Regional actors are involved as a proxy war: Saudi Arabia against the UAE, for example (who are also having a proxy war in Yemen). And Egypt against Ethiopia. The wikipedia article covers some of the complexity: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudanese_civil_war_(2023%E2%80... EDIT: This is what I am thinking of: htt…

This war is not even known about by the general public. The question is why not? I believe the actors of the war nobody hates or loves outside of Africa. Nobody knows them. If it would be Americans, Chinese, Israelis, or Russians involved, the war would be in the news.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#117
post #73

One factor this article skips over is that UAE and the Abraham Accords makes the US reluctant to rein in their buddies. This might change due to the UAE not being very happy about the US dragging them into a regional war.

You're right, I underweighted that. The Abraham Accords logic sits underneath the whole US posture toward the UAE and I should have named it directly. The piece treats it as part of the "economic interests" frame but that's too abstract.

Concretely: the US has tied its Gulf diplomacy, arms sales, and regional security architecture to the normalization framework, and the UAE is the pivot. Calling out UAE arms transfers to the RSF would mean fracturing that, which nobody in Washington wants to do, Biden administration included.

On the second point I'd be more cautious. There were signals after the Iran escalation that Abu Dhabi was getting nervous about regional entanglement, and some reporting suggested a partial cooling on RSF support. But I haven't seen hard evidence that the arms pipeline has actually slowed, and the ICC evidence-gathering announcements haven't produced any UAE course correction yet. The incentive structure to keep hedging via Hemedti is still intact as long as the RSF controls Darfur and the gold flows.

Fair catch on the Accords piece though, that's a gap.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Can any downvoters explain the downvotes?

It's a very simplistic and radical point of view that doesn't take into account the reality of the world we live in. It also doesn't take into account the intricacies of foreign politics and seems to assume that the gulf states are the only bad actors here. Finally "gulf states" is a catch-all so big that it's borderline funny. (What did Bahrain do?)

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#119

Is anyone stopping any of the genocides around the world? Governments and citizenry are engaged in many attempts to wholly eradicate cultures and minorities. Sometimes fast, like Israel attempting to eradicate Palestinians. Sometimes they are slow, like the barriers put into place against indigenous communities after generations of genocide against them. It's not new either. Sudan, Uyghers, Rohingya, Yazidi, Armenian…

"The world" cares about some more than others. That's why the plight of the Palestinians is daily on the news, while that of the Yazidis or Druze is not.

Re: The abandoned war: Why no one is stopping the genocide in Sudan

#120
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you will be held as responsible for exploiting the country if you do actually manage to end the conflict and bring about positive economic change. People don't understand that it takes generations to train a populace to work in a functioning economy. Sudan would probably need 25 years of colonization before you had competent Sudanese to run all parts of a modern economy. You can't just go in, stop the fighting, a…

Colonizing only helps the colonizers, not the indigenous population. > So you end up with 25 years of being held responsible (by the world and by the local population) As they should.

> Colonizing only helps the colonizers, not the indigenous population.

I am not sure that this statement is completely true in all cases.

Take for example the Roman conquest of the Mediterranean. Romans tended to win their wars because they had superior organization - they could field more armies, and equip those armies, better than their adversaries, even if their adversaries had better commanders (eg Hannibal).

Once conquered by the Romans, the indigenous population got access to all the benefits of being part of Rome's 'empire' - access to what was then one of the largest trade network, the roads, the aqueducts, the Roman legal system...

I do believe, although, not being a professional historian I have the humility to admit my belief could be wrong, than overall being conquered by the Romans led to an overall increase in living standards for the local population.

Or consider the brutal conquest of what is now Mexico by the Spanish. We rightly remember the conquistadors as being incredibly violent and oppressive, but if large swaths of the local population chose to join them in their assault on the Aztec empire, it may have been because the Aztecs were even more violent - indeed, if my understanding of Aztec culture is correct, the Aztec religion required a human sacrifice every day to ensure that the sun would rise. Compared to that, arguably even the Spanish Inquisition is a step up.

Finally, consider that the practice of slavery in what is now Algeria ended only in 1830, when the French colonized it. Now you can accuse the French colonizers of being vicious brutes (and you'd have a lot of evidence to support that claim), but... at least they weren't enslaving anyone. Of course, this last point makes a value judgement that basically boils down to "slavery is always bad", if you have a value system where "some things, including colonization/colonial/imperialist violence are worse than slavery, then you can safely discount it ^_^

Post reply on HN