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Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

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Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#111

Post by mothballed »

gordonhart wrote: post #94
chromacity wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility", but you're effectively instilling that at gunpoint: the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison. Is that really such an enlightened thing to do? It takes away two years of your life, po…

> the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison You'll never guess what happens if you choose not to pay taxes.

And this justifies it why?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#112

Post by nothinkjustai »

_doctor_love wrote: post #70
amadeuspagel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finland doesn't have compulsory military service to help people feel connected to their society. Feeling connected to one's society is not an end in itself, people should be free to choose how connected they want to feel. Finland has compulsory military service because it's a small country that borders Russia. The US is a big country that borders Canada and Mexico.

> people should be free to choose how connected they want to feel Yes and no. Of course people should be free, at the same time you live in a society and not a state of nature. If someone never has to put back into society, that's dangerous. It could lead to people feeling that society has no value, that there's no sense in investing in it, that since nobody else cares why should I. That's not a world I want to live…

Instead of complaining about the average person not contributing enough to society why don’t we focus on the people (I.e. politicians) who directly leech off of society and make it worse? I’d rather they simply had no impact either way.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#113

Post by nkrisc »

nobodyandproud wrote: post #64
rhcom2 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you could argue the draft forced the war to be real for more families (and the expansion of TV), intensifying the resistance to it. Quick googling says almost 10% of the population served in Vietnam in some capacity. Less than 1% served in the War on Terror. This was part of Charles Rangel's (D) reasoning to propose bringing back the draft. [1] 1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_National_Service_Act

That argument falls flat, when considering regions like the Ukraine that are fighting for survival today. And when contrasting with earlier times like the Civil War, where a draft was unpopular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enrollment_Act

Drafts, and by extension wars, should be unpopular. War should be the last resort that no one wants to take. No one should be cheering for a war they won't have to participate in.

War has become too remote and comfortable for most Americans.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#114

Post by Teever »

chromacity wrote: post #63
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

> Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility", but you're effectively instilling that at gunpoint: the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison. Is that really such an enlightened thing to do? It takes away two years of your life, po…

What if it didn't delay your education? In some countries an undergrad degree is only three years. I'd take a person with 1 year of civil service + 3 years of a degree over someone with 4 years of a degree any day.

Somebody who is confident enough to handle a rifle and throw a hand grenade is way more useful to me than someone who was forced to another literature or geology course.

Have someone demonstrate a command of the English language by following written instructions that require coordinating activities with a small group of people.

Instead of learning how to read a topographical map for first year geology lab final actually put the map in their hand with a compass and have them do an orienteering exercise as a group.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#115

Post by sidewndr46 »

tootie wrote: post #33

Karp has a right to his opinion as bonkers as it may be but it is doubly bonkers to release this as company policy. Especially coupled with all the other bonkers things that went into this manifesto. Rearming Germany and Japan? Why does Palantir care about that? Toss in some unsubtle racism and you're really just staking your company position as aligned with a very narrow political niche. Seemingly at odds with the c…

Unless I'm mistaken Germany has US-owned nuclear weapons on it's soil at all times. There are some part of the German military that could use a serious rethinking because of a decay of operational capacity. But exactly what else would we be arming them with?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#116

Post by ux266478 »

cdrnsf wrote: post #57
_doctor_love wrote: post #20

Other countries have compulsory military service, for example Finland. Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Military service would just be one option, could be other kinds of civic engagement. This can really help people feel connected to their society and understand that there is something to show up for. BUT -…

The US hasn't cared about the social contract for decades and it hasn't taken justifiable military action for a longer stretch of time. Healthcare is byzantine and terrible, education is being gutted on ideological grounds, social stability is eroding, wealth inequality is an ever widening chasm, the climate is being degraded, AI is a threat looming over much (if not all) of this. Why volunteer? The arrogance to thin…

It's almost suicidal. It's so stupidly hubristic that one has to wonder if the end goal is a total institutional collapse, with the belief that the technocracy will end up holding the cards?

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#117

Post by mlsu »

tshaddox wrote: post #89
chromacity wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generally speaking I am a fan of the idea that everyone should be required to do some kind of community service for 2 years once they turn 18. Why? I get the warm-and-fuzzy angle of "instilling civic responsibility", but you're effectively instilling that at gunpoint: the government forces you to do this, else you go to prison. Is that really such an enlightened thing to do? It takes away two years of your life, po…

It also implies that most normal work isn't in the interest of society, which if that were true, would be a major problem on its own. In what sense is 2 years of military service or "community service" strictly better for society than going to school, or working as a waiter, or starting a small business?

I mean, yes? I think when we say, we should force 18 year olds to do something useful for society instead of working doordash or taking college classes that they don't care about, that is kind of saying something about the usefulness of those things.

If the market figured it out we wouldn't be having these discussions in the first place.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#118

Post by mrhottakes »

sph wrote: post #91
mrhottakes wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hacker aesthetic has always been largely reactionary and hyperfocused on the individual and individual freedoms. See also the politics of "generation X"

The saddest thing of our age is that "reactionary" and "individual freedom" is equated to authoritarian movements that are anything but. The hacker aesthetic has always been anarchist in nature, until the rich Californians decided that a hacker is an entrepreneur that participates into the game of capitalism. To be fair, even the concept of libertarianism was an offshoot of anarchism, until the Americans decided that…

"Right wing politics dominated by the rich" is the natural endpoint of libertarianism, so that makes sense. Whether they're "real" libertarians or not, the elite techies leading the charge are people with politics like Karp, Andreessen, Musk, etc.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#119

Post by mothballed »

mlsu wrote: post #117
tshaddox wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also implies that most normal work isn't in the interest of society, which if that were true, would be a major problem on its own. In what sense is 2 years of military service or "community service" strictly better for society than going to school, or working as a waiter, or starting a small business?

I mean, yes? I think when we say, we should force 18 year olds to do something useful for society instead of working doordash or taking college classes that they don't care about, that is kind of saying something about the usefulness of those things. If the market figured it out we wouldn't be having these discussions in the first place.

It's not a market failure. If you pay enough money you can attract either citizens or even destitute African people to volunteer to get blown up for the glory of Trump and the oil companies.

Re: Palantir Wants to Reinstate the Draft

#120

Post by mrhottakes »

azangru wrote: post #77

What does it mean for Palantir to want to reinstate the draft? And why is this newsworthy?

The movements and announcements of large tech companies tend to be newsworthy, whether it's "we made a new iPhone", "our new model is so good it's dangerous!" or "we should have a draft to support new American imperialism"
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