This all feels a bit like letting children into a nightclub and then needing to see ID every time you buy a drink.
... isn't this how most bars/pubs work?
Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
111–120 of 221 posts
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It is my understanding that this is not possible. I would be happy to be shown to be wrong, but to me it seems like you can either prevent people from lending out their credentials, or you can preserve the anonymity of the user, but not both. This is not designed to prevent adults from coöperating with minors; that makes no sense as a design goal because any technical measure can always be bypassed with “download t…
But laws against selling/giving alcohol to minors are moderately successful at curbing teen alcohol use because they carry with them a risk of punishment that grows with the scale of the operation. If all it took was one adult who thought "kids should be allowed to drink if they want" to provide all the kids in the country with free booze and that adult had no meaningful fear of repercussions, the laws would be nothi…
In Europe it’s very frequently perfectly legal to give alcohol to minors, but not sell.
For example, in the UK it’s only illegal to give alcohol to a child younger than 5 years old.
France has no limitations, giving a toddler wine is not explicitly illegal. Getting a child drunk would be.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#113Note that this is an implementation of eIDAS: https://www.eudi-wallet.eu/ The point of this is that you can use the credentials on your phone to prove that you are an adult to a website using zero-knowledge proofs to avoid disclosing your identity to anybody. If somebody who has access to your unlocked phone can access the data in the app, then this is something that should be tightened up but it’s a substantial priv…
> The point of this is that you can use the credentials on your phone to prove that you are an adult to a website using zero-knowledge proofs to avoid disclosing your identity to anybody. It is my understanding that this is not possible. I would be happy to be shown to be wrong, but to me it seems like you can either prevent people from lending out their credentials, or you can preserve the anonymity of the user, but…
>masquerade as however many sock puppets they like
Multiple accounts must be supported, because e.g. personal and work accounts must be separate to not mix them.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#114Note that this is an implementation of eIDAS: https://www.eudi-wallet.eu/ The point of this is that you can use the credentials on your phone to prove that you are an adult to a website using zero-knowledge proofs to avoid disclosing your identity to anybody. If somebody who has access to your unlocked phone can access the data in the app, then this is something that should be tightened up but it’s a substantial priv…
Or just let us set our age in the OS profile? Works for adults and kids.
Even better would be if the website provided the age rating in a HTTP header, and the browser could locally check if the account is allowed to see it. That way you avoid exposing the age of the user.
And yes, even sending an age bracket exposes the age over time as you can observe a repeat visitor changing brackets and compute the actual age from that. With the server sending the info instead you can't really tell if the browser blocked it, or if the user just didn't navigate further on the page. (The browser still need to fetch all the CSS and other resources though, otherwise that would be possible to tell apart.)
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#115Please stop saying "Brussels" to mean the EU. It's a nasty trick to give the idea that it's some kind of external entity forcing your country to do something. It's not. It's an assembly. And it's insulting to people from Brussels. I don't want this any more than you do.
It’s very common throughout English. The Russian government is refered to as Moscow, US as Washington. It’s the same and doesn’t refer to residents. It’s known as synecdoche. In other words, sorry but it’s here to stay.
No, it is not quite the same as Moscow and Washington are capitals of centralised states who give orders to the whole nation.
The EU on the other hand does not have a common constitution, army etc. so is not a real state (yet). It is made up of soveraign nations who come together debate and decide there, but then it is still up to the members to implement that.
So the transition to the EU as one state is happening, but might never complete.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#116Please stop saying "Brussels" to mean the EU. It's a nasty trick to give the idea that it's some kind of external entity forcing your country to do something. It's not. It's an assembly. And it's insulting to people from Brussels. I don't want this any more than you do.
It definitely forces countries to do things they want to do, generally via compliant leadership of those countries. See the last 15 years of UK voters being worried about immigration levels, vs immigration levels.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very common throughout English. The Russian government is refered to as Moscow, US as Washington. It’s the same and doesn’t refer to residents. It’s known as synecdoche. In other words, sorry but it’s here to stay.
No, it is not quite the same as Moscow and Washington are capitals of centralised states who give orders to the whole nation. The EU on the other hand does not have a common constitution, army etc. so is not a real state (yet). It is made up of soveraign nations who come together debate and decide there, but then it is still up to the members to implement that. So the transition to the EU as one state is happening, b…
It doesn't imply that the EU is one state. It's just the place where the decisions are made. If Brussels didn't like anyone knowing that, I'm sure other cities in the EU would happily take the gobs of free money showered on wherever the EU is headquartered.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s very common throughout English. The Russian government is refered to as Moscow, US as Washington. It’s the same and doesn’t refer to residents. It’s known as synecdoche. In other words, sorry but it’s here to stay.
No, it is not quite the same as Moscow and Washington are capitals of centralised states who give orders to the whole nation. The EU on the other hand does not have a common constitution, army etc. so is not a real state (yet). It is made up of soveraign nations who come together debate and decide there, but then it is still up to the members to implement that. So the transition to the EU as one state is happening, b…
I’m not sure you realise that this is a far more generic rhetorical phenomenon that encompasses all kinds of situations. Like referring to the FBI as Quantico.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hmm how is it zero knowledge when you can be tracked to a single installation of an app? I thought zero knowledge means they ask a "trusted" 3rd party, i.e. the government. And that says yes/no, without passing any ID details on.
Zero knowledge as in the state provides a certificate without directly interacting with the third party website, and the third party does not get personal information beyond "this access is by a certified adult", with no explicit or implicit information about which adult.
Yep, that's a good idea, but it also means the app on your phone has to talk to the state. Probably through a web 7.0 RESTLESS api. And even though the 3rd party web site doesn't get your identity, the state's database does.
It's the RESTLESS api being hacked I worry about.
Re: Brussels launched an age checking app. Hackers took 2 minutes to break it
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, it is not quite the same as Moscow and Washington are capitals of centralised states who give orders to the whole nation. The EU on the other hand does not have a common constitution, army etc. so is not a real state (yet). It is made up of soveraign nations who come together debate and decide there, but then it is still up to the members to implement that. So the transition to the EU as one state is happening, b…
I’m not sure you realise that this is a far more generic rhetorical phenomenon that encompasses all kinds of situations. Like referring to the FBI as Quantico.
Or Scotland Yard for the metropolitan police in london. They were commonly known by that name almost immediately after their founding in 1829.
Perhaps the earliest example is Pharaoh. It originally referred to the royal residence.