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A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

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111–120 of 165 posts

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

religious beliefs aside, there’s something pleasing about living a good life and facing a decent death: closure.

except without religious beliefs you cannot objectively define good and bad, it's all just moral relativism.

Unless you subscribe to moral objectivism.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#112
post #107

The thing I don't get about accounts of NDE and what people say about them afterwards is this: if they lived to tell the tale, their near death wasn't actual death. They didn't "peak over to the other side". So whatever they experienced was what the brain experienced well within the realm of the living. And we know it was within the living enough that the person recovered and was able to recount the experience! How c…

Not all of them pass on to the other side but some are allowed to and come back. Search youtube for "atheist dies and sees Hell", for example.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#113

Things that are worthy of discussion ( such as one in this posting ) rarely get any attention.

What is of discussion here?: 1. Restaurants should carry an anti-choking device. Too many elderly risk a stroke without it. 2. People often do have a delusion or vision just before death, one that is a product of their own brain, fitting their understanding of the world. I had an incredible vision when I had taken half an oxycodone prescribed for pain. 3. There are more ways of expressing one's belief or disbelief in…

[dead]

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#114
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also well-known now is that our feelings are affected by things like our gut biome. Do all our little passengers resurrect with us?

The traditional concept of an 'embodied' resurrection (as opposed to ghosts playing harps) makes me lean towards: yes (eg the gut is part of the body). Who knows though, it's a fun question!

yeah it is :) Like, do we eat in heaven? If not, then all our little passengers must also be immortal in their resurrected form. But part of the biome is the dead bodies of those critters, and those dead bodies also affect our mood (chemistry doing its thing). So how does this work? Does heaven automatically maintain the correct chemistry in our guts to maintain our emotional and hormonal stability with needing the actual biome? Or does it maintain the biome at the correct chemistry without needing the actual ecosystem? And other parts - do the bugs that live on our hair follicles come with us? Does hair even grow in heaven?

I have questions...

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the brain dumping DMT Why do you exclude this hypothesis? It's well known that some drugs such as DMT do cause very similar hallucinations among people, even across cultures (as is the case with NDE).

Yeah I didn't want to burst anyone's spiritual bubble earlier, but I had a very similar experience one time when I smoked salvia divinorum: there was an eerie and overwhelming purple light, sort of like a "fluorescent" UV bulb, and the Ministers of The Universe pulled my life history in front of me, something something ALL OF SPACE AND TIME WAS- I wasn't speaking to God. I was high on salvia. And I'm quite certain A.…

No you didn't that's not even what a salvia trip is like why lie about that in HN of all places haha

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#116
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you frequently experience and remember dreams?

Yes I even used to do lucid dreaming. These days best I can do is wake up and stop dreams on command. I also regularly experience sleep paralysis. That took a lot of work to get used to.

Everyone reading this should pull on the sleep paralysis thread if you decide to research this topic. It's a interesting one.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#117
post #80
post #76

Being familiar with Ayer from his Epistemology works, this writeup was unexpected. How could an empiricist write "My recent experiences have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death, which is due fairly soon, will be the end of me". It also directly contradicted his stance about metaphycal claims.

An empiricist could write that with no contradiction if he experienced it, which Ayer did. I think his conclusion is very reasonable. It's highly likely that NDEs are minds sputtering to a stop. But if you experience one (while your heart has stopped for 4 minutes no less), it seems rational to "slightly" update your priors towards the possibility of some kind of afterlife. At the very least, it may indicate some kin…

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Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#118
post #59
post #22

The most striking thing to me is that Ayer hopes there isn't life after death. > My recent experiences have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death, which is due fairly soon, will be the end of me, though I continue to hope that it will be . (italics mine) I do get the sense that many atheists not only reject God & the afterlife but actually don't want there to be a God or an afterlife. (I think Thomas…

> I do get the sense that many atheists not only reject God & the afterlife but actually don't want there to be a God or an afterlife. I feel that eternity in Heaven would actually be Hell, because nothing would matter. No danger, no failure, no challenge, no goals, no purpose. What gives life meaning are mortality, limitations, beginnings and endings, progress. I recently watched the film "Eternity" on Apple TV, sta…

“Heaven is a place where nothing ever happens” for better or worse.

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#119
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not long ago, a local mad church put a packet of pamphlets through my door, one of which was this magnificent tale: https://avesselofhonour.com/2023/06/28/48-hours-in-hell/ Some of those features show up there too. Of course, this comes from a Christian background, and draws on that. But it does have a river, and there's no river in hell in the bible.

Where is that story from? Is George Lennox even a real person?

Of course not, it’s proselytizing material, the sort of stories that might be illustrated in Chick Tracts, down to the admonition to repent and pray at the end - a ‘Ticket to Heaven’

Re: A. J. Ayer – ‘What I Saw When I Was Dead’ (1988)

#120

Probably the contrarian take, but an informed one. Near death experiences are probably the best way we have to assess the nature of reality. Now, it's almost impossible to reach people who aren't ready with any arguments, but I'll outline some possible steps for anyone who's on the verge. - Go to youtube, type in NDE and listen to a few - Try to come up with a "rational" explanation (hallucinations, the brain dumping…

100% agree with BoardsOfCanada. Note: Atheism, agnosticism are all religions ( or religious thinking disguised as reasoning ); no less fanatic than the ones their adherents so fervently ridicule.

No, you’re wrong - Atheism is the opposite of religion - it’s disbelief, not belief.

This whole “well actually atheism is just another kind of religion” thing is why I begrudgingly have started to prefer describing myself as ‘irreligious,’ just so that there is absolutely no opportunity for equivocation.

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