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US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

nytimes.com

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Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#111

Post by FunnyUsername »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #100
Protostome wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza and Lebanon were not part of the cease fire agreement. Besides, After the first round of hostilities the ceasefire agreement reached between Israel and Lebanon included the disarmament of Hezbullah, and sending the Lebanese army to take the south under control. None of which was done, so Israel had to do it by itself

Like you I do not have a direct line with the diplomats of the involved countries, but every major news outlet was including Lebanon in the agreement. What Israel is doing by itself is occupying more land and vilifying the concept of humanity, not "taking the south under control". Let me remind you that Hezbollah has founded as a direct reply to the '82 invasion of Lebanon by Israel. The whole source of pain, misery…

> every major news outlet was including Lebanon in the agreement

Israel never said anything about having accepted an agreement, and in fact stated the opposite. The Pakistani mediator can't just declare Israel part of an agreement without its, well, agreement.

> Hezbollah has founded as a direct reply to the '82 invasion of Lebanon by Israel

Which was a rather necessary response to the PLO attacking Israel from Lebanon. Or what would you have expected Israel to do instead?

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#112

Post by Protostome »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #109
Protostome wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why would anyone in their right mind next to Israel disarm ? So they can have their land occupied by ultra orthodox jew nazis ? And on the contrary, the major news outlets are infested by israeli propaganda. Letting israel exist ? Does israel leave Gaza exist ? Or the west bank ? Or Syria, or Lebanon ? Or any of those people that have been living there for thousands of years, not just 80 ?

[flagged]

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#113

Post by FunnyUsername »

cassianoleal wrote: post #110
Protostome wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza and Lebanon were not part of the cease fire agreement. Besides, After the first round of hostilities the ceasefire agreement reached between Israel and Lebanon included the disarmament of Hezbullah, and sending the Lebanese army to take the south under control. None of which was done, so Israel had to do it by itself

> With the greatest humility, I am pleased to announce that the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America, along with their allies, have agreed to an immediate ceasefire everywhere including Lebanon and elsewhere, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. PM of Pakistan announced without a doubt after the agreement that Lebanon "and elsewhere" were included. "Western" media seemed to gloss over this "small detail". http…

Israel hadn't agreed to anything yet though. There was apparently some confusion in the Pakistani mediation. Vance called it a "legitimate misunderstanding".

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#114

Post by Protostome »

cassianoleal wrote: post #110
Protostome wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza and Lebanon were not part of the cease fire agreement. Besides, After the first round of hostilities the ceasefire agreement reached between Israel and Lebanon included the disarmament of Hezbullah, and sending the Lebanese army to take the south under control. None of which was done, so Israel had to do it by itself

> With the greatest humility, I am pleased to announce that the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America, along with their allies, have agreed to an immediate ceasefire everywhere including Lebanon and elsewhere, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. PM of Pakistan announced without a doubt after the agreement that Lebanon "and elsewhere" were included. "Western" media seemed to gloss over this "small detail". http…

[flagged]

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#115

Post by surgical_fire »

gmokki wrote: post #19

The negotiatons can be considered a big success because Israeli leaders did not order the murder of the negotiators this time. This will open doors for more realistic negotiations in the future.

I think that murdering the negotiators on Pakistani soil would risk bringing a very big country that has nukes to the conflict, and they would not be siding with Israel.

Israel is vile enough to want to do this, but probably not suicidal enough to actually do this.

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#116

Post by FunnyUsername »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #89
YZF wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very hard to imagine nuclear weapons being used in this conflict.

Is it? Israel is a rogue state at this point, and it has openly stated that were the US to withdraw, they would use "any means necessary". They seem to not be satisfied by causing global economic harm, they want nuclear annihilation as well.

What quote are you referring to?

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#117

Post by 4a5Askl »

Protostome wrote: post #114
cassianoleal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the greatest humility, I am pleased to announce that the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America, along with their allies, have agreed to an immediate ceasefire everywhere including Lebanon and elsewhere, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. PM of Pakistan announced without a doubt after the agreement that Lebanon "and elsewhere" were included. "Western" media seemed to gloss over this "small detail". http…

[flagged]

The Qatari owned Al Jazeera is not particularly pro Iran right now. Qatar is Iran's enemy.

The Pakistani Prime Minister's statement is literally on Twitter:

https://xcancel.com/CMShehbaz/status/2041665043423752651

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#118

Post by FunnyUsername »

gmokki wrote: post #19

The negotiatons can be considered a big success because Israeli leaders did not order the murder of the negotiators this time. This will open doors for more realistic negotiations in the future.

Hitler regularly negotiated with other leaders, should he have been off-limits as a target? Why should it be any different with Hamas leaders, who sometimes negotiate and sometimes organize terror attacks?

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#119

Post by hyperman1 »

Protostome wrote: post #114
cassianoleal wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> With the greatest humility, I am pleased to announce that the Islamic Republic of Iran and the United States of America, along with their allies, have agreed to an immediate ceasefire everywhere including Lebanon and elsewhere, EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY. PM of Pakistan announced without a doubt after the agreement that Lebanon "and elsewhere" were included. "Western" media seemed to gloss over this "small detail". http…

[flagged]

Who would you consider reliable news sources for this war? Honest question.

AFAIK The USA governement has proven unreliable, even more so than Iran. USA news sources are owned by the same oligarchs owning the governement. Other western sources follow the USA train of thought, with more or less doubt thrown in. Mint from India and Al Jazeera from Qatar (not happy with Iran right now) seem closest to neutral of the pack, even if not that great. I am not aware of a reliable Israeli news source.

The ACOUP article was one of the best analysis of this war I've seen, which is pretty damning for the real news sources if you think about it.

Re: US – Iran negotiations end with no deal reached

#120

Post by FunnyUsername »

hyperman1 wrote: post #119
Protostome wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Who would you consider reliable news sources for this war? Honest question. AFAIK The USA governement has proven unreliable, even more so than Iran. USA news sources are owned by the same oligarchs owning the governement. Other western sources follow the USA train of thought, with more or less doubt thrown in. Mint from India and Al Jazeera from Qatar (not happy with Iran right now) seem closest to neutral of the pac…

> I am not aware of a reliable Israeli news source.

If you consider Al Jazeera a reliable source, then we'll probably disagree on this. But I would say Ynet, Times of Israel, and Jerusalem Post and reliable, just to name some of the big ones with lots of English content online. Or Haaretz for a more anti-government-leaning (but still broadly reliable) publication.

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