I suggest this vocal performance:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=GggK9SjJpuQ
They're made out of meat (1991)
111–120 of 191 posts
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the story, the very idea of permanently meat-based beings appals them, and in fact one of them doesn't entirely believe it. So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea? "Blend in" with what? One of them doesn't believe what it's dealing with! Like a sibling comment mentions, they talk about "meat sounds"... using meat sounds! Why would they find it surprisi…
> So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea? I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in? They infiltrating to investigate. It needn't be an endorsement of the practice.
> I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in?
British spies in WWII wouldn't do that if the entire concept of what a swastika was baffled them. You have to understand at least basically what the thing you're looking at is in order to use it as a symbol.
If you have _no_ concept of people being made out of meat being possible, you don't dress up as people made out of meat. You do that if it's a common concept to you and you're trying to fit in.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#113Also by Terry Bisson and one of my favorite stories is Bears Discover Fire 1990 https://www.lightspeedmagazine.com/fiction/bears-discover-fi...
I loved this story when I first read it. I made me feel wistful, like a world was dying and simultaneously being born. I can't explain it, but the idea of bears using fire has stayed with me ever since.
I'm reminded of an excellent surreal novel, "The Bear Comes Home" by Rafi Zabor, about an ursine jazz saxophonist.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks for doing a "well AKTually" on a piece of amusing fiction.
There's no refutation of anything here, I seriously thought about the possibility of evolution without meat, but you should be convince me otherwise if you can show me how it can arise naturally after big bang. It's a discussion of reality stemming from an inspirational fiction. The whoosh apply to you.
Seriously...don't read any other science fiction stories. The things they write about that we can't indulge you by proving how they could possibly happen will make your head explode.
Edit: spelling
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#115The short film someone made is pretty great: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6JFTmQCFHg
The short film makes no sense, as the 2 people talking are meat themselves.
They only look like they're made of meat. And they only look like they're made of meat to you because you know you're made of meat, and they look like you.
To them, they're just disguised as "what the creatures on this planet look like," which is obviously (to them) not meat, because they've never seen meat beings. To them, we are obviously not-meat, although how we appear is compatible with being meat. But silicone dyed the correct shade can look like meat. Stone painted the right color can look like meat.
And if you say that silicone and stone don't look like meat even when prepared to copy it, bear in mind that we are made of meat and very good at distinguishing it. Different races favor different attributes for distinguishing one person from another, hence why "they all look alike" is somewhat true for pretty much any "them" you care to name. Rocky from Project Hail Mary almost certainly thinks all humans look alike.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What is it satirizing? I think it's (partly) satirizing how we feel about ourselves as the apex beings, and as explorers of the cosmos and colonizers. What if we are actually quite subpar, and the actual apex beings in the universe find us so unlikely and disgusting that they prefer to pretend they are not there, thus giving an answer to Fermi's Paradox? They don't want to conquer us, they don't want to have anythi…
I thought it was satirising faux-intellectual SF short stories that try to seem deeper than they are. If it’s just an actual faux-intellectual SF short story, that’s much less interesting. On this planet, we’ve found that basically anything can be used to perform computation, electronics (semiconductors, vacuum tubes), mechanics (linkages, gears, cams, steel balls) , pneumatics, photonics, electromechanics, electroch…
> I thought it was satirising faux-intellectual SF short stories that try to seem deeper than they are. If it’s just an actual faux-intellectual SF short story, that’s much less interesting.
I think it's neither. It's a humorous scifi story. Bisson had a sense of humor (much like, say, Asimov also had one and wrote many humorous stories that you'd best not overanalyze!).
> So the notion that any advanced spacefaring civilisation would be astonished by any form of creature or communication method given how much variety there is on this one planet is hard to entertain, even as satire.
It may be hard to entertain, but the trope this is riffing on was very well established in scifi. Many people still think in terms of mankind exploring and conquering new frontiers, space included.
You're overanalyzing this. It's satire, a joke story.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So why would they look like meat to "blend in", a priori, if one of them doesn't even fathom the idea? I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in? They infiltrating to investigate. It needn't be an endorsement of the practice.
> I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in? British spies in WWII wouldn't do that if the entire concept of what a swastika was baffled them. You have to understand at least basically what the thing you're looking at is in order to use it as a symbol. If you have _no_ concept of people being made out of meat being possible, you don't dress up as people made out of meat. You do that if it…
But they mention species with a meat phase.
The concept of meat isn’t foreign. Meat that’s sentient and has no cybernetic parts or phase is.
And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd imagine British spies in WWII sometimes wore swastikas to blend in? British spies in WWII wouldn't do that if the entire concept of what a swastika was baffled them. You have to understand at least basically what the thing you're looking at is in order to use it as a symbol. If you have _no_ concept of people being made out of meat being possible, you don't dress up as people made out of meat. You do that if it…
But they mention species with a meat phase. The concept of meat isn’t foreign. Meat that’s sentient and has no cybernetic parts or phase is. And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.
> And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.
Only one of them has. The other is entirely surprised by the whole concept, and wouldn't even entertain disguising itself as something it has never considered and in fact it's being convinced during the story it even exists.
It's important for the story to work that one of the beings is entirely unconvinced and has to be told, as they discuss the matter, that this is an actual thing!
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
But they mention species with a meat phase. The concept of meat isn’t foreign. Meat that’s sentient and has no cybernetic parts or phase is. And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes.
> And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes. Only one of them has. The other is entirely surprised by the whole concept, and wouldn't even entertain disguising itself as something it has never considered and in fact it's being convinced during the story it even exists. It's important for the story to work that one of the beings is entirely unconvinced and has to be told, as they discuss t…
The one that looks super goofy?
He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.
Re: They're made out of meat (1991)
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And they do say they’ve studied and probed for several human lifetimes. Only one of them has. The other is entirely surprised by the whole concept, and wouldn't even entertain disguising itself as something it has never considered and in fact it's being convinced during the story it even exists. It's important for the story to work that one of the beings is entirely unconvinced and has to be told, as they discuss t…
The one that looks super goofy? He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.
Tom Noonan in the short film, yes.
> He’s dressed like someone told “hey you have to try to blend in” and didn’t really know how.
Blend with what? It (the alien) didn't believe these "meat" sentient beings existed when the story starts! It had to be told during the conversation. It thought there must have been machines somewhere who were the real sentient beings. How can anyone attempt to blend in with something one doesn't believe exists?
I understand the adaptation changes this, because there's no other way of working with human actors and also staying within budget. I understand the decision; I'm just saying it misses the mark and makes the story way less funny.
The way I envision this story is a couple of aliens, much like the scenes with the Simpsons aliens, hovering in a spaceship near Earth, discussing humans, with only one of them having actually seen a human. It doesn't work if both have seen them.
All in my opinion, of course, taste and sense of humor are completely subjective.