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The Importance of Being Idle

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Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#111

Post by tonyedgecombe »

joe_mamba wrote: post #43
lmf4lol wrote: post #35

I really do like the idea and the thinking behind it. I wpuld even argue that modern Europeans are already embracing and practicing much if it. Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. And we all have a sh”tload of holidays and irregular days off additionally. Need to get kids from school earlier? no prob… Need to spontanously (!) to go the dentist? no prob. (Honest disclaimer: I am talking h…

>Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. You mean 36h in a full time employment contract or by self reported work hours or is it part time work? > I am talking here solely about my white collar bubble Well from where I am in the EU and across other people I know in EU, for white collar jobs 40h contract is the norm in most places for most people I know. 36h is kind of an exception in select…

It’s interesting that the countries with the weakest economies in Europe work the longest hours.

During the financial crises Greeks were getting a lot of criticism from Northern Europeans for being lazy but the reality was they did far more hours.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#112

Post by bell-cot »

lmf4lol wrote: post #35

I really do like the idea and the thinking behind it. I wpuld even argue that modern Europeans are already embracing and practicing much if it. Nearly no one I know in NL and DE works more than 36hrs per week. And we all have a sh”tload of holidays and irregular days off additionally. Need to get kids from school earlier? no prob… Need to spontanously (!) to go the dentist? no prob. (Honest disclaimer: I am talking h…

Your most important point:

> (Honest disclaimer: I am talking here solely about my white collar bubble, no idea about blue collar to be honest. Not much contact with people from that field unfortunately)

Even ignoring your "BUT! Is this a survival strategy? While [...]" point - try talking to the farmers and blue collar workers upon whom your day-to-day life is critically dependent.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#113

Post by tonyedgecombe »

nicbou wrote: post #67
dripdry45 wrote: post #3

I started with “How to Be Idle” by Hodgkinson about 20 years ago. Found “The importance of living “ by Lin yutang. I now have a small collection of books about idleness… yet here i am working and then throwing myself into working on a century house in my spare time… feeling starved for idleness. Yet my most creative ideas for it come when I’m idle. Idleness led to Taoism, the pursuit of being useless. Led to Buddhism…

You can microdose idleness. Be productive in general, but make time for doing nothing without guilt. I made it a habit to spend my first waking hour idle, and it feels great.

I prefer to microdose work.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#114

Post by bregma »

jiriknesl wrote: post #104
zozbot234 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should we care to be "at the top"? The average person gets no benefit from this; on the contrary, they would do a lot better if underperforming countries in Europe's neighborhood raised their standards of living.

"The average person gets no benefit from this" this is a very bad take. In Europe, innovation in the end help everyone. Better healthcare starts with the rich, and ends distributed to everyone. The same is true for everything else.

Ah, the good old "trickle down" theory of Thatcher and Reagan. Remember how much better off we became when we gave more to the wealthy?

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#116

Post by paganel »

watwut wrote: post #99
paganel wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We generate a lot of wealth in those 36 hours, You don't, (Western) Europe is just a rentier-place at this point, living on other people's backs. For example look at Maersk, from the much-beloved and relaxed Denmark, their business would crumble over night if it weren't for the Americans keeping the seas open for them.

Americans seems to be intent to cause as much damage to everyone including themselves. USA is the only country that ever triggered article 5 of NATO and got military help out of it. And now acts like victims when others don't rush to help them with absurd badly planned war where they are clear aggressors. The second real use of NATO was to send armies to greenland to discourage USA to attack it just 2 months ago. So,…

> NATO and got military help out of it

That was token help (the Brits excluded), let's be serious here, we're all grown-up men.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#117

Post by tock »

mr_toad wrote: post #106
tock wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's conditioning. We cannot be happy idle because society deems idleness as bad. Just like people cannot be happy with a balding hairline because society has deemed it to be ugly. If the trend changes in a century and balding is suddenly hot then the same people would be happy.

It’s all about sex. Being idle typically means being poor. Try being in the dating market when you’re poor. Being bald means being middle aged which is also a big negative in the dating market. The people who are lauding the virtues of being idle probably have money, and are of the age where they’re past measuring success by body count.

Yeah poor people don't have sex. Neither do middle aged people. Lmao.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#118

Post by TeMPOraL »

joe_mamba wrote: post #109
vinaigrette wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. Mean standard of living is a poor way to calculate inequality. If you have a link to a median one it would help to compare.

>Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. How is this an argument? A poor person in the US has a massively better standard of living than a poor person in Vietnam. Poverty is relative. If you have a small apartment in a city of McMansions, you're poor, but if you have a goat in a village of no goats, you're rich.

> Poverty is relative. If you have a small apartment in a city of McMansions, you're poor, but if you have a goat in a village of no goats, you're rich.

That worked before globalization. Nowadays, having a small apartment in a city of McMansions means you're upper middle class. Poor people in the west have no apartments and no goats.

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#119

Post by bregma »

RickHull wrote: post #13
namanyayg wrote: post #4

It feels like there is no correct translation for it in English -- idleness carries connotations of laziness whereas a better way to think about it is being aware and present of the moment. I have been practicing Buddhism for a while and it often is indescribably blissful to just sit in nature, feeling the wind in my hair and sun on my back. Anyone can experience this door with just a little bit of practice and I enc…

The jargon term, slack , comes to mind, in the concept-cluster of the old Google 20%-time, Slackware Linux, and Church of the SubGenius.

Slackers! You're all slackers! [0]

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEsNiV8e4ko

Re: The Importance of Being Idle

#120

Post by nisegami »

joe_mamba wrote: post #109
vinaigrette wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. Mean standard of living is a poor way to calculate inequality. If you have a link to a median one it would help to compare.

>Poverty levels are roughly the same between Vietnam and the US from a quick search. How is this an argument? A poor person in the US has a massively better standard of living than a poor person in Vietnam. Poverty is relative. If you have a small apartment in a city of McMansions, you're poor, but if you have a goat in a village of no goats, you're rich.

I always found it interesting that homeless folks in the US seem to live in tents a lot of the time, but in my country they rarely have more than a piece of cardboard. I don't know if my perception is incorrect, or if I'm ready too much into this, but my conclusion has been basically what you said: at every socio-economic level, the people at that level have higher standards of living in developed countries than in developing countries.
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