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Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

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Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#111

Post by Tepix »

IshKebab wrote: post #107
pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

> it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home No big mystery: a) most people keep cars for 20 years or more, b) most people don't buy new cars - they're too expensive.

What‘s the source for the 20 years? Seems unlikely to me.

b) You can also buy used EVs. I bought one last year, 2 years old, for 56% of the original price.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#112

Post by n4r9 »

IshKebab wrote: post #107
pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

> it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home No big mystery: a) most people keep cars for 20 years or more, b) most people don't buy new cars - they're too expensive.

Is there not a big image factor? Like, people don't want to be seen as the type of person who'd drive an electric.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#113

Post by ErroneousBosh »

pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

I looked into buying an EV but it turns out it would be a little over four times as expensive as running an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine.

So I still run an old Landrover with a massive V8 engine.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#114

Post by energy123 »

roenxi wrote: post #32

It is also a useful trick to keep in mind the opposite of critical thinking - following the herd. Just copying everyone around you is often a great strategy. So good that even if everyone around you are making mistakes it can still be the dominant strategy (there is a reason a lot of people who don't like war are cowed into silence when war fever descends). Most people are using it. That implies that it is ridiculous…

> the US hasn't seen a good outcome to a war since something like WWII

Korean War, Panama, and Gulf War were rather successful, resulting in a (more) US-aligned and prosperous South Korea/Panama/Gulf. Without these wars, South Korea wouldn't exist, Panama would probably still be a dictatorship, Saddam Hussein would control Kuwait and the US would have significantly less influence among the GCC.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#115

Post by imtringued »

pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

EVs got really good in the last two years. If you bought anything that wasn't a Tesla ten years ago you were faced with some pretty bad compromises if you insisted on driving an EV.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#116

Post by thinkingemote »

pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

What are the arguments being used to sell electric cars?

I would say that investing oneself and one's money in an idea changes how one feels about the choices that was taken. I would say that those not invested might think that some of the arguments might have untruths more than those who have invested.

(For me inertia does play a role too! "Why fix what's not broken")

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#117

Post by pjc50 »

pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

This feels irrelevant - it's not an idea about which lots of lies are being told in favor? (quite a lot of .. misapprehensions against, though)

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#118

Post by pjc50 »

imtringued wrote: post #115
pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

EVs got really good in the last two years. If you bought anything that wasn't a Tesla ten years ago you were faced with some pretty bad compromises if you insisted on driving an EV.

The original Leaf looks like a Nokia 3210 compared to a current-gen iPhone. The tech has been moving at high speed and continues to do so.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#119

Post by pjc50 »

IshKebab wrote: post #107
pmg101 wrote: post #106

I'm not sure. Don't underestimate the power of inertia. I bought an EV last year and it's definitely been a "good idea" for me. Luxurious ride, fuel costs a tenth, doesn't stink. Seems such an obvious upgrade it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home.

> it slightly confuses me take-up hasn't been quicker among people who like me can charge at home No big mystery: a) most people keep cars for 20 years or more, b) most people don't buy new cars - they're too expensive.

The average car in the UK is ten years old: https://www.racfoundation.org/media-centre/average-car-in-th... ; while I have an 18 year old car, I'm an outlier on my street.

It's true that most people don't buy new, but there's still 20% of purchases new, and a steady flow of EVs into the used market.

Re: Good ideas do not need lots of lies in order to gain public acceptance (2008)

#120

Post by 0x3f »

achierius wrote: post #44
0x3f wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human law enforcement hallucinates all the time. This is a bit like a poor argument against self driving.

The last line of GP's comment is key here: "Who do I sue if Palantir decides I am an illegal?" This shouldn't make as much of a difference as it does, but due to how our legal system works, it's much harder to get meaningful legal satisfaction when an algorithm (or other inhuman distributed system) commits a crime against a person than when a person does so.

I think you're confused about the mechanism involved. It's hard to get satisfaction due to e.g. qualified immunity. The fact they use technology is largely irrelevant. You couldn't sue the NSA for spying on you before AI either.
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