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South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

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Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#111

Post by balderdash »

jld wrote: post #3

It seems inefficient to put solar panels over parking areas as it requires significant amount of structure which costs a lot more than shade it creates is worth. Especially compared to how much less structure is needed on more remote solar farms. Maybe I'm just using American mindset where there is lots of open land that is good for solar generation? Perhaps not true in Korea?

I don’t think it’s that much more - it’s really just extending the length of the pilings used in regular ground mounted utility scale solar?

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#112

Post by rglullis »

SecretDreams wrote: post #106
Kodiack wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love seeing trees in more places, but for parking lots in particular they do have some downsides compared to solar panels. They often require more space; they attract birds that that poo on vehicles; and there’s a higher risk of collateral damage during windstorms. Not to mention that solar panels directly produce electricity, of course. We absolutely should see more trees in many cities, but they introduce their o…

> they attract birds that that poo on vehicles The city can simply introduce lizards to manage to bird issue.

But then what are they going to do with the Gorillas? Are winters in Korea that cold?

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#113

Post by glenstein »

tbrownaw wrote: post #18
testing22321 wrote: post #4

This is the kind of thing that every western ( or “rich” ) government should have mandated years ago. The best time was years ago, the second best time… We see the results of initiatives like this in BC, Canada. About 10 years ago they passed a law that when any government building is getting a renovation of any kind, public EV chargers must be built in the parking lot. The result is that every single town without ex…

> This is the kind of thing that every western ( or “rich” ) government should have mandated years ago. If it's cost effective there's no need to mandate it. If it's not cost effective but you want it anyway, you can explicitly subsidize it instead of mandating it. Does South Korea do mandated parking minimums like I hear is common here in the US? That would tell whether this is a tax on business property in general,…

Electric utilities are "natural monopolies" that get to monopolize territory in exchange for being well regulated. It's preferable to having 3, 4, 5 utility poles stuck at the same corner all running wire for competitors. But it means you don't have market conditions driving optimization between competitors.

Moreover electric transmission and distribution gains from limiting solar investment and there's a history of utilities being in tension with solar power and lobbying against it. Solar skips the power lines and utilities need people to need power lines.

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#114

Post by seb1204 »

jld wrote: post #3

It seems inefficient to put solar panels over parking areas as it requires significant amount of structure which costs a lot more than shade it creates is worth. Especially compared to how much less structure is needed on more remote solar farms. Maybe I'm just using American mindset where there is lots of open land that is good for solar generation? Perhaps not true in Korea?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47559893

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#115

Post by SecretDreams »

rglullis wrote: post #112
SecretDreams wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they attract birds that that poo on vehicles The city can simply introduce lizards to manage to bird issue.

But then what are they going to do with the Gorillas? Are winters in Korea that cold?

Nighttime temps of -10c, I think we've got this locked! If not, send the saja boys after them.

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#116

Post by edmundsauto »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #77
jyounker wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm an American, and it seems like a great use of land to me. This sort of a policy is particularly sensible in areas where it's hot, and there are extensive parking lots next to places that are mostly active during the day. Instead of just having a heat island, you generate power to run AC in the associated buildings, and you also get shade for the parked cars.

There's a reason centrally planned economies are abject failures. People are incapable of anticipating all of the cascading effects of a "sensible" policy

This is also a feature of distributed economies; it’s just the communication overhead to make a change centrally means that bad decisions are less easily repaired. AI and electronic data feeds seriously could be tried to fix this. There are good advantages to a centralized economy… the trick is getting the objective function right.

And it’s not like modern capitalism has done a good job of that anyhow.

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#117

Post by tbrownaw »

KennyBlanken wrote: post #98
Aurornis wrote: post #6

The solar covered parking lots near me are great because they also serve as cover for your car when it’s hot and sunny. It’s not the most cost effective way to install solar, though. A tall structure designed to put the panels high up in the air and leave a lot of space for cars is a lot more expensive than normal rooftop solar or even field setups. This is basically a way to force some of the cost of clean energy as…

There's a lot of entirely unsupported statements here that seem to be nothing more than uneducated opinion. You assume there's still a lot of rooftop space that doesn't already have solar on it. SK has very high population density and long started moving toward "less efficient" installs like balcony solar because most 'easy' rooftops already have solar on them. Remember: the rest of the world is way ahead of the US o…

> You ignore that solar on-site coupled with EV chargers on site eliminates a lot of grid transmission losses. In theory a residential complex, employer, retail, or commercial site could set up something like this, pumping most of the energy into the cars parked underneath, and have a fairly small connection to the grid.

How many square yards of panels would one EV charger need an a typical afternoon / evening?

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#119

Post by adrianN »

Kodiack wrote: post #33
eclipticplane wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better version for shade and city beautification is to force trees around/within the parking lot.

I love seeing trees in more places, but for parking lots in particular they do have some downsides compared to solar panels. They often require more space; they attract birds that that poo on vehicles; and there’s a higher risk of collateral damage during windstorms. Not to mention that solar panels directly produce electricity, of course. We absolutely should see more trees in many cities, but they introduce their o…

If you don’t want trees near parking cars that essentially prevents trees in cities, since cities are practically one big parking lot.

Re: South Korea Mandates Solar Panels for Public Parking Lots

#120

Post by markerz »

Kodiack wrote: post #33
eclipticplane wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A better version for shade and city beautification is to force trees around/within the parking lot.

I love seeing trees in more places, but for parking lots in particular they do have some downsides compared to solar panels. They often require more space; they attract birds that that poo on vehicles; and there’s a higher risk of collateral damage during windstorms. Not to mention that solar panels directly produce electricity, of course. We absolutely should see more trees in many cities, but they introduce their o…

> they attract birds that that poo on vehicles

I think this is a tree density problem. Most cities have a small number of trees, and they’re almost always over cars. These are trees that line streets and parking lots. Without trees, birds just have telephone poles and wires, which are also over the cars.

In San Francisco, we have a lot of trees on most of our streets, and many parks small and big, all full of trees. This means birds spread themselves out everywhere, not just over cars.

I think the true barrier to getting more trees is that individuals tend not to want to pay for and maintain trees. This includes caring for the tree, trimming it when it gets bigger, and cleaning the pollen, leaves, fruits, and branches that fall.

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