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GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

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Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#111

Post by MintPaw »

johnisgood wrote: post #107
dathinab wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. it's the only form of "age verification" which can be done in a somewhat privacy respecting way (as in at most leak the age) the idea is to "bounce back" the "is old enough" decision to parent controls and let the parent choose (the Californian law doesn't quite do that perfectly, but goes into that direction) and if you sell what is more or less a general purp…

Or just not have it at all? What is wrong with parental controls AND parenting? What real issue does this solve?

It solves the problem of your kid borrowing a phone from another kid at school.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#112

Post by 627467 »

HybridStatAnim8 wrote: post #89
fph wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me add that the typical GrapheneOS user will probably prefer to install the OS themselves rather than trust what comes preinstalled.

The typical GOS user generally doesnt want to do that. Flashing is a hurdle that increases barrier for entry. Reducing or eliminating that burden is ideal. Greenboot support would make flashing a little easier.

> typical GOS user generally doesnt want to do that

How do you know this? Is there an official (or even unofficial) source of GOS preinstalled devices that a substantial amount of "typical GOS user" has acquired?

Or maybe you are talking about "potential user of GOS"?

In any case: if you installed it yourself you mostly have to trust the source of the installer. If you purchase a pre-installed device you're basically back to the android/ios model: you have to trust the manufacturer AND the maker of the OS

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#113

Post by wolvoleo »

wormius wrote: post #73
crimsonnoodle58 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Why should Linux ever implement local laws like this as core functionality? Especially invasive/anti-privacy ones. If someone wants to introduce an age-verification-ca-module, fine, but not make it core. Yes I understand systemd is not the kernel, but its ubiquitous enough. That just says to every country around the world; Windows, Mac, and even Linux is on board too, let's make it law also! I dunno, I always ex…

Systemd has always rubbed me the wrong way, and its uptake across all the base distros turns me off, but at least... https://nosystemd.org/ There are still distros without it, I may have to go to one, since I already jumped Win10 to Cachy for the BS MS is pulling. I was going to go systemd-free but Cachy "just worked" compared to the others in terms of setup. So I stuck with it. I wish Lennart would just stop already…

Yeah it's one of the reasons I run BSD. I don't want stuff changing that works well. And I don't want big tech suits telling me what's good for me.

BSD is much less invested in chasing the next big thing, and also has much less contributions from big tech. Which for me are both pluses. Of course I respect those who differ but they have Linux.

And when I see what Poettering is working on now with ammutable I'm even more glad I'm not on that train.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#114

Post by wolvoleo »

pxeboot wrote: post #39
stego-tech wrote: post #36

Good on them. Devices shouldn't collect any extraneous data by default other than that needed to fulfill a feature a user consciously selects, and that includes this stupid age verification spyware regimes are pushing. An adult had to pay for the ISP connection; that's the extent of age verification needed. We shouldn't be demanding adults expose their identities to for-profit entities and surveillance states, so muc…

> An adult had to pay for the ISP connection In many countries, it is still possible to buy a prepaid SIM without any ID.

So, they can change that if they want.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#115

Post by wolvoleo »

pull_my_finger wrote: post #97

I wonder how things like computers at the library will work. This whole thing is just so stupid and intrusive. I can't imagine anyone will benefit from this except advertisers, doxxers and Big Brother.

You're not really going to be watching porn at the library though, just saying

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#117

Post by Dylan16807 »

wolvoleo wrote: post #116
Dylan16807 wrote: post #105

Having an age setting is not verification. Having an age setting is not verification. I hate the articles that lump everything together.

No but it is one of the building blocks for a verification system.

It could be used in one. But it would need so many changes that it doesn't advance that kind of thing by much.

It also gets sites to stop doing their own invasive verification systems.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#118

Post by wolvoleo »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #117
wolvoleo wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No but it is one of the building blocks for a verification system.

It could be used in one. But it would need so many changes that it doesn't advance that kind of thing by much. It also gets sites to stop doing their own invasive verification systems.

I still view it as a step in the wrong direction. And it sends a message that this kind of law is ok.

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#119

Post by ranger_danger »

nout wrote: post #25

In the meantime systemd already added handling for Age to the system bus. Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for...

> Next step is to add your race, then income, then who you voted for

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope

Re: GrapheneOS refuses to comply with new age verification laws for operating system

#120

Post by weikju »

johnisgood wrote: post #107
dathinab wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Age verification at the OS level makes no sense to me. it's the only form of "age verification" which can be done in a somewhat privacy respecting way (as in at most leak the age) the idea is to "bounce back" the "is old enough" decision to parent controls and let the parent choose (the Californian law doesn't quite do that perfectly, but goes into that direction) and if you sell what is more or less a general purp…

Or just not have it at all? What is wrong with parental controls AND parenting? What real issue does this solve?

> Or just not have it at all? What is wrong with parental controls AND parenting?

It doesn't hand over control of computing to governments

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