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Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

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Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#111

Post by tetha »

tombert wrote: post #86

I agree with the sentiment but I am not sure the best way to go forward. Suppose I encounter a bug in a FOSS library I am using. Suppose then that I fix the bug using Claude or something. Suppose I then thoroughly test it and everything works fine. Isn’t it kind of selfish to not try and upstream it? It was so easy prior to AI.

It depends on the complexity and if your LLM-driven changes fight the architecture of the project.

Some changes are in the area of "Well no one did that yet because no one needed it or had time for it", or "Well shit, no one thought of that". If Claude Code did these changes with good documentation and good intent and guidance behind it, why not? It is an honest and valid improvement to the library.

Some other changes rip core assumptions of the library apart. They were easy, because Claude Code did the ripping and tearing. In such a case, is it really a contribution to improve the library? If we end up with a wasteland of code torn apart by AI just because?

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#112

Post by aprdm »

jpitz wrote: post #105
EMM_386 wrote: post #69

This is getting really out of control at the moment and I'm not exactly sure what the best way to fix it is, but this is a very good post in terms of expressing the why this is not acceptable and why the burden if shifting on the wrong people. Will humans take this to heart and actually do the right thing? Sadly, probably not. One of the main issues is that pointing to your GitHub contributions and activity is now pa…

A decade or more of people copy-pasting rote solutions from StackOverflow only supports the notion that many people will forego comprehension to foster the illusion of competent productivity. This ain't an AI problem, it's a people problem that's getting amplified by AI.

That's true. Except that you can have Agents doing it 24/7 with no human input. The amount of repos/PRs is only limited by GPUs

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#113

Post by gverrilla »

tombert wrote: post #86

I agree with the sentiment but I am not sure the best way to go forward. Suppose I encounter a bug in a FOSS library I am using. Suppose then that I fix the bug using Claude or something. Suppose I then thoroughly test it and everything works fine. Isn’t it kind of selfish to not try and upstream it? It was so easy prior to AI.

While I see the point you're trying to make, truth is 90% of the times at least it will be a workaround instead of a proper solution. Even if it's a proper solution, there's a high chance it will only work on your specific setup - most open source software are made for a range array of systems, configurations, etc.

That plus ai sycophancy means, in my opinion, a great portion of contributions made in this manner will be bad, and waste maintainers time - which is obviously undesirable.

On my first week of claude code I submitted a PR to a FOSS and I was 100% sure it was correct - ai was giving me great confindence, and it worked! But I had no clue about how that software worked - at all. I later sent an email to the maintainer, apologizing.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#114

Post by seanp2k2 »

jpitz wrote: post #105
EMM_386 wrote: post #69

This is getting really out of control at the moment and I'm not exactly sure what the best way to fix it is, but this is a very good post in terms of expressing the why this is not acceptable and why the burden if shifting on the wrong people. Will humans take this to heart and actually do the right thing? Sadly, probably not. One of the main issues is that pointing to your GitHub contributions and activity is now pa…

A decade or more of people copy-pasting rote solutions from StackOverflow only supports the notion that many people will forego comprehension to foster the illusion of competent productivity. This ain't an AI problem, it's a people problem that's getting amplified by AI.

It was interesting the other day tracing the lineage of Aaron Swartz -> Library Genesis / Sci-Hub -> LLM vendors relying on that work to train their models and sell it back to us all with no royalties or accountability to the original authors of all this painstakingly researched, developed, and recorded human knowledge they’re making billions on.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#115

Post by FEELmyAGI »

simonw wrote: post #60
bensyverson wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simon, as co-creator of Django, what's your take on this story?

I think this line says everything: > If you do not understand the ticket, if you do not understand the solution, or if you do not understand the feedback on your PR, then your use of LLM is hurting Django as a whole.

Why does it matter if the I understand the ticket and solution? THe LLLM writes the code not me. If you want to check the LLM understanding i'll be happy to copy and paste your gatekeeping questions to it.

Hey I thought you were a proponent of "no one needs to look at the code" ? dark factory, etc etc.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#116

Post by seanp2k2 »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #106

"For a reviewer, it’s demoralizing to communicate with a facade of a human." This is so important. Most humans like communicating with other humans. For many (note, I didn't say all) open source collaborators, this is part of the reward of collaborating on open source. Making them communicate with a bot pretending to be a human instead removes the reward and makes it feel terrible, like the worst job nobody would wan…

It’s probably already too late to put these horses back in the barn, but having an “allow AI commits / PRs” would have probably been a good idea for GitHub to make available to projects. Even better might have been something like a robots.txt for repos with rules that could be auto-evaluated and PRs auto-rejected if they weren’t followed.

Then again, we see how well robots.txt was honored in practice over the years. As with everything in late-stage capitalism, the humans who showed up with good intentions to legitimately help typically did the right things, and those who came to extract every last gram of value out of something for their own gain ignored the rules with few consequences.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#117

Post by acedTrex »

genthree wrote: post #103
acedTrex wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically my favorite use of claude is removing caring about jira from my workflow. I already didn't care about it but now i dont have to spend any time on it. I treat jira like product owners treat the code. Which is infinitely humorous to me.

Teach me your ways. I’ve long wished for an actual, human secretary to handle that for me. The context-switching and digging around in a painful, slow interface (I don’t just mean Jira, 100% of the ones project managers find acceptable seem to have this quality) is such a productivity killer, and it’s so easy to miss important things in all the noise.

https://github.com/ankitpokhrel/jira-cli just install this and have claude write a skill on how to use it.

Its laughably simple to do. I havent touched the jira UI in months.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#118

Post by seanp2k2 »

slopinthebag wrote: post #67
module1973 wrote: post #39

It's like every new innovation at this point is exacerbating the problem of us choosing short term rewards over long time horizon rewards. The incentive structure simply doesn't support people who want to view things from the bird's eye view. Once you see game theory, you really can't unsee it.

This is what happens when governments around the world spend decades inflating the currency to pay for their bloated projects, devaluing peoples savings and paycheques and causing them to prioritise making money over anything else. You kinda gotta do it to survive.

But at the moment it’s so exciting to see if we’re headed more for a Waterworld-esque dystopia or something more similar to Neuromancer / The Matrix. I guess it’ll depend on the rates at which the global economy collapses as a result of AI and WW3 vs climate change, exacerbated of course by the inevitable global thermonuclear war.

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#119

Post by [deleted] »

thewebguyd wrote: post #29
Cpoll wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moltbook meets GitHub? Sounds like a billion dollar valuation (sarcasm tag deliberately omitted).

Actually, I'd want to see that. All the AI companies keep saying it will take our jobs, human developers won't be necessary. Well let them put their money where their mouth is. Let's see what happens, see what the agents create or fail to create. See if we end up with a new OS, kernel all the way up to desktop environment.

[deleted]

Re: Give Django your time and money, not your tokens

#120

Post by acedTrex »

zenolove wrote: post #80
acedTrex wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically my favorite use of claude is removing caring about jira from my workflow. I already didn't care about it but now i dont have to spend any time on it. I treat jira like product owners treat the code. Which is infinitely humorous to me.

Horrible degrading take. Be the change you want to see. Don't fuel the fire that's burning you. If something's not happening, something else's making it impractical. Saying this as a 10+ years product manager and R&D person with 20+ more years of engineering on top. I also had to deal with "managers are just complicating things" or "users are stupid and don't understand anything"; do you think I complained? No, I had…

The industry is broken now, this is just a response to that. Leadership and product don't have any respect for the code, why would engineers have any respect for the ticketing process.

Thats an unreasonable asymmetric effort demand, "Your code does not matter but my precious tickets must have elbow grease put into them."

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