Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 236 posts

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#111

Post by aziaziazi »

greygoo222 wrote: post #59
stouset wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that continuing to enjoy your existence is inflicting a massive toll of suffering around the world, to both others humans as well as non-humans. I’m not saying I’d be one to push the button, but I think it’s worth trying to understand the mindset of someone who would. It’s very arguable that pushing it would be the ethical thing to do.

[flagged]

Here's a tip for you: describe what you find questionable and why, otherwise reader will understand: "I don't like that, you're [loser / mentally hill / nihilist]".

I you don't like the conversation you're also free to ignore it.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#112

Post by quesera »

anonym29 wrote: post #98
Insanity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Farmed animals could live happy, healthy lives and then be culled in a humane way. Breeding animals _specifically for killing them_, no matter how they are killed, is not what I'd consider humane. If we take 'humane' literally, it means to be treated as you would treat a human. I doubt we'd do this to humans. So the only way to be okay with this is adhering to a form of specieism.

Many farm animals aren't bred specifically for killing them. Think egg-laying hens and ducks, milk-producing cows and goats, etc. Not too different from humans in that respect; humans are bred systematically (we have dedicated hormonal supplements, birth facilities, documented birthing procedures, standardized post-birth checklists of forms of vaccination regiments, standardized mass schooling, government-subsidized…

I think you misinterpreted GP's emphasis.

But still, egg and dairy animals are culled when productivity drops. The human equivalent would be killing all male babies, and females after age ~40.

This does not seem more "humane" than the human equivalent of meat farming, where all human offspring would be harvested at age ~15.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#113

Post by greygoo222 »

hypeatei wrote: post #102
greygoo222 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The person you're responding to is explicitly saying they would be fine with suicide.

> is explicitly saying I don't think it's explicit, that's why I put the quip in there about assisted suicide. This thread is showing me that perhaps a lot of people would be okay with the "complainers" offing themselves but I'm not sure... my gut feeling is that a lot of optimists hold conflicting beliefs around this.

As a card-carrying optimist, I am strongly in favor of universal right to die. Maybe you should wait for the people in this thread to report their opinions before making assumptions?

I don't want most "complainers" to kill themselves, nor would I recommend them to, but I support their right to. And if they showed me convincing evidence their life contains too much suffering to be worthwhile, I would agree with their decision.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#115

Post by flowerbreeze »

Havoc wrote: post #22

The sooner we get to true lab grown meat the better Meat is nice but would be better if we can skip the whole suffering thing

I think not so long from now the exotic meal experience for the young ones will be real grilled chicken that looks like a chicken. Like zebra or crocodile meat was for us northerners.

From my own little box I think that that if lab grown meat was available and affordable, I would never eat a bit of real chicken, pork or beef again. I know veganism is an option too, but... I grew up with meat and it's very difficult to give up.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#116

Post by quesera »

stouset wrote: post #95
greygoo222 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Humanity did not introduce evil, but we have absolutely industrialized and massively scaled it.

I think humanity did introduce evil.

It requires a sense of morality to divide good from evil, and I don't think that existed on Earth before humans. Digging into the Hominid tree might add some qualifications, but I don't see that as a meaningful distinction.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#117

Post by Spivak »

butILoveLife wrote: post #43

I find it odd we need legislation to prevent this. There are not enough consumers to care? Or maybe with legislation we get better outcomes due to scaling effects? If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? I'm sure small labs are doing this, but if we are at the…

Voters do care, in both blue and red states, they already passed laws in their state to this effect. This is the federal government invalidating those laws.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#118

Post by quesera »

akramachamarei wrote: post #108
imjonse wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To me, this is yet another reason why capitalism initially was great at making an economy, Initially it wasn't that great either if you were a slave or worked 14 hours a day .

Capitalism precludes slavery.

> Capitalism precludes slavery.

Hmm? Capitalism neither precludes nor predates slavery.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#119

Post by Insanity »

quesera wrote: post #112
anonym29 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many farm animals aren't bred specifically for killing them. Think egg-laying hens and ducks, milk-producing cows and goats, etc. Not too different from humans in that respect; humans are bred systematically (we have dedicated hormonal supplements, birth facilities, documented birthing procedures, standardized post-birth checklists of forms of vaccination regiments, standardized mass schooling, government-subsidized…

I think you misinterpreted GP's emphasis. But still, egg and dairy animals are culled when productivity drops. The human equivalent would be killing all male babies, and females after age ~40. This does not seem more "humane" than the human equivalent of meat farming, where all human offspring would be harvested at age ~15.

Yup exactly. And when animals are bred specifically for milk, they aren't treated well even before they are killed. Dairy cows need to be kept continuously pregnant / in lactation state through artificial insemination. They don't magically produce milk all-year round.

And pregnancy is _hard_ on animals (including humans), it changes your physiology and psychology. Even if we take for granted that a cow isn't as conscious as a human (IMO consciousness is a sliding scale, not a binary), then they are still being primed for giving birth and taking care of offspring which never comes. Imagine doing that to a human - it's a definite form of cruelty.

Re: New farm bill would condemn pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates

#120

Post by greygoo222 »

aziaziazi wrote: post #111
greygoo222 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Here's a tip for you: describe what you find questionable and why, otherwise reader will understand: "I don't like that, you're [loser / mentally hill / nihilist]". I you don't like the conversation you're also free to ignore it.

[flagged]
Post reply on HN