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The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

lesswrong.com

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Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#111

Post by davidelettieri »

Aurornis wrote: post #42
davidelettieri wrote: post #25

Having done IVF with my wife I think this is the most underrated fertility advice available today. I don't understand why governments of countries with increasing average age and low birth rate don't pay for this for all women. This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented.

> This is one the best pro-family policies that can be implemented Hard disagree on that. You're coming from an angle of someone who wanted to have kids and do it in a mathematically optimal way. A lot of people see egg freezing as a way to delay having kids until they're older, which can become a disincentive to raising families when they're young and healthy enough to do it. If you want a pro-family policy, you sho…

IVF in Italy is included in universal health care already, regardless of age.

If the government is going to pay for IVF for 40 years old women it would be cheaper if those women had eggs frozen at 20 because overall you would succeed with fewer embryo transfers.

Of course that's not the only policy needed, we need affordable house for families, schools, decent parental leave for both parents.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#112

Post by why_is_it_good »

Aurornis wrote: post #106
rsynnott wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the website is called lesswrong.com, and not correct.com.

I tried not to comment directly on the site because I wanted my points to stand on their own. However, Lesswrong has a long history on the internet. It’s part of the “rationalist” writing sphere which has become oddly preoccupied with topics like race and IQ, eugenics-adjacent topics, and never ending flirtations with reactionary ideologies.

[flagged]

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#113

Post by vintermann »

Teever wrote: post #2

> Lastly, the stem cells we're planning to use to make these eggs accrue mutations with age, and we don't currently have a good method to fix these before making them into eggs. These mutations will bring additional risk of various serious diseases, only some of which we currently have the genetic screening to detect. I've always found this one fascinating. Somehow human cells age and humans get old and die but human…

It's not quite reset. Harmful mutations do accumulate. Sexual reproduction is how we keep up with them - the selection effect (probably most of it at the sperm stage?) pushes it so that you're more likely to get a child with the less-damaged sides of their parents's DNA.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#114

Post by lurking_swe »

greygoo222 wrote: post #81
conductr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through it with my wife too and expecting a 19 y/o women to go through the IVF process as an insurance policy is a bit insane to me. In our modern, western society, this is age is still solidly childhood with not much definitive thoughts of future family, marriage, etc. Governments need to make COL more affordable, birth rate will go up naturally

Calling 19 "childhood" is crazy. Most teens have an understanding of what they want their life to look like.

but as someone in my 30s, it’s kind of true…looking back.

I can only speak as a man. I spent my late teens thinking with my penis instead of my brain. Things worked out well for me by pure luck.

Most teens have no real experience with “real” relationships or what makes a great life partner. This is CRUCIAL when parenting. They’re also not thinking about a stable career so they can actually support a baby. Never mind the money…most jobs in the U.S. have garbage health insurance, unless your employer is great.

Many people THINK they know what their life should look like. Then again most teens think they have life figured out lol. A tale as old as time…

I would say mid 20s is an ideal time from a maturity perspective. The best time depends on the person obviously. You can’t plan falling in love. :)

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#115

Post by kleiba »

bdangubic wrote: post #73
kleiba wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my kids late in life and I always thought my life experience was a bonus when it came to raising the kids and wrt keeping it together with the wife.

Same and feel the same (in addition to financial stability) but oh so often I wish I had my kid earlier in my life

I can relate to that -- perhaps it's a bit the feeling of "missing out", like, when your peers have the time (and energy ;-)) to do fun stuff that you just cannot do because of the kids.

But I'm thinking that I had ample time to make experiences earlier in life, and even though I'm going to be close to retirement age by the time the last one of our children is going to leave the house, I still think it was fine the way it happened.

The whole framing of "I'm missing out because I have kids" is already a pretty terrible way of thinking about life, to be honest. I have a good friends who's divorced and with pretty much no circle of friends, apart from me, and he's really having a hard time coping with loneliness. Me, on the other, I cherish each chance I get to spend some alone time where I can just do hobby stuff or whatever, even though these moments really don't happen very often.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#116

Post by lurking_swe »

znpy wrote: post #70
wredcoll wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside from the part where you have to raise them, sure.

It really seems you have no idea what you’re talking about. I have a couple of friends married for about 4-5 years, with a 4-years old son and a one year old daughter. They both have graduate degrees and stable jobs. They are near 40 years old. Man, they are two zombies. They are drained. They push forward for the immense love of their kids but it’s incredibly evident they’re drained. And the thing is… having kids at…

ya’ll are talking about 2 separate extremes. Of course each extreme has its own set of cons. Hardly surprising.

At the end of the day it’s a moot point. You can’t pick when you find love and a suitable partner. :)

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#117

Post by lurking_swe »

conductr wrote: post #55
morkalork wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents and my spouse's parents were all in their late 30s having children, now we're in the same position due to infertility and now finally going through IVF. We're happy it's working but at the same time it's sad knowing they'll grow up never really knowing their grandparents.

The grandparent situation is sad af. It's also pretty sad being a mid-40s year old dad that doesn't have the energy to keep up with their kid. I pitched a little league game yesterday and it wiped me out. Also, the fact I (and you) will not know our grandchildren very well also is quite sad. If my son has his first kid the same age I had him, I'll be in my 80s when that kid is starting little league (or that age). Th…

As a soon to be father, all i can say is don’t do this to yourself man! Remember to give yourself grace and kindness. You made what you thought was the best decision at that time. Maybe it was sub-optimal, but don’t try to min-max life. The “what if” game can be a fun game if it’s done with curiosity, but don’t let it consume you. just isn’t worth it.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#118

Post by 47282847 »

To add to the additional risks and complications mentioned already in this thread: it is an open question what later life consequences IVF/ICSI has on the person born from it. Studies imply a range of health issues that may be related, even just considering effects on the mental state of the parents and their subsequent willingness/ability to emotionally bond with the child.

Re: The optimal age to freeze eggs is 19

#120

Post by rsynnott »

Aurornis wrote: post #106
rsynnott wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the website is called lesswrong.com, and not correct.com.

I tried not to comment directly on the site because I wanted my points to stand on their own. However, Lesswrong has a long history on the internet. It’s part of the “rationalist” writing sphere which has become oddly preoccupied with topics like race and IQ, eugenics-adjacent topics, and never ending flirtations with reactionary ideologies.

Oh, yeah, I'm aware.
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