Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#111

Post by wrs » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 8:46 PM UTC

semitones wrote: post #79

wrs wrote: post #68

Not all instruments are limited to a fixed set of pitches. A good classical string player micro-adjusts each individual note to adapt to its harmonic context. For example, making all the thirds and fifths sound good even when the key changes, or adjusting a leading tone up or down very slightly to make it even more leading. Another way to think of it is that they have to hit every pitch without assistance from the in…

fretless and continuous instruments are not confined to 12-TET

Yes! If you broaden your scope beyond “Western diatonic” you get even more opportunity. “Why can’t you tune your Turkish microtonal guitar” would also be an interesting follow-up.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#112

Post by bandrami » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 8:57 PM UTC

rzzzt wrote: post #107

I always thought it's an optimization problem: the headstock is pulled by the strings towards the guitar's body, and whenever you get one string in tune, the change in (the distribution of) force changes the tuning of all other strings as well. So ideally they should be moved into an acceptable configuration collectively. People with six hands should be able to do it.

If you've been storing it with strings loose and are bringing it into tune you definitely gradually tighten all the strings rather than just doing it in sequence, for that reason

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#113

Post by lukeinator42 » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 8:59 PM UTC

A good analogy for equal temperament might be the Gregorian calendar, as a year does not evenly divide perfectly into 365 days. So in order to compensate for that we adjust the calendar by a leap year every so often to make the calendar more accurate in the longer term. That's kinda similar to how every note is a little off in equal temperament so that at the larger scale of being able to play all intervals works out.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#114

Post by jMyles » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 9:06 PM UTC

post-it wrote: post #28

> If you watch slow-motion video of a guitar string vibrating, you’ll see a complex, evolving blend of squiggles. These squiggles are the mathematical sum of all of the string’s different harmonics. This is incorrect. If you watch a video like [0], the squiggles aren't real, they're an artifact of a rolling shutter camera. A real slowmo camera will correctly show the entire string vibrating[1]. The rest of the articl…

> If you watch a video like [0], the squiggles aren't real, they're an artifact of a rolling shutter camera.

...is this correct? You can say this about any oscillating phenomenon - that doesn't mean it's not 'real'. The "squiggles" are an artifact of the frequency of the string and the scan rate of the rolling shutter. You'll also see artifacting from a global shutter camera, where the "squiggles" will be an artifact of the string frequency and the frame (rather than scan) rate.

Or do I misunderstand?

I've been playing guitar for 25 years, and it seems to me that I can look at the "squiggles" from a rolling shutter capture of a string and tell you which string it is (and possibly, if I'm having a particularly sharp day, whether it's E or drop-D). I've never tested myself this way - am I certain to fail? :-)

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#115

Post by YZF » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 9:40 PM UTC

kjkjadksj wrote: post #75

YZF wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is generally true for the guitar. There are even songs that have notes intentionally out of tune (e.g. Scar Tissue by the Red Hot Chili Peppers). Agree with the OP that the characteristics of the guitar, including its "out of perfect tune", is what gives its music its unique characteristic. It's not a bug it's a feature. There might be some people with perfect pitch who get annoyed but for most peo…

Outside of people like van halen also pretty much no one is exploring the entire neck on a single song. So the issue of the guitar not being perfectly intonated is irrelevant since they are using just a piece of its range.

A lot of simple songs are just open "cowboy" chords for sure. But those are played on the first frets while the guitar is typically intonated at the 12th fret and tuned with open strings. I would expect those first frets to be fairly "out" vs. the open strings.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#116

Post by leni536 » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 10:04 PM UTC

I thought this was going to be about stiffness of the strings and how the modes even on a single string are not in tune compared to the mathematical model, which assumes infinitely flexible strings.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#117

Post by Wolfenstein98k » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 10:26 PM UTC

amelius wrote: post #9

> If thirds and fifths are so out of tune in 12-TET, why do we use it? The advantage is that all the thirds and fifths in all the keys are out of tune by the same amount. None of them sound perfect, but none of them sound terrible, either. Can't we have a system that is optimized for the notes that are actually played in a song rather than the hypothetical set? And what if the optimization is done per small group of…

Not really, because notes do double duty.

You might play a G# note in the context of an E chord (where it's the third), and then you might play it in the context of a C# (where it's the fifth).

These are discernably different pitches, but the same "note", in the same key, in the same song!

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#118

Post by dahart » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 10:33 PM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #61

There is no way to tune your guitar so that all the successive open fourths (and the one major third) are pure, without the high E being quite off pitch relative to the low one. But, unless you mainly play stacked fourths, why would you make it a requirement? You can, for instance, tune instead to get pure fretted fifths between adjacent strings, and fretted octaves between strings one removed. The real reason you ca…

> You can, for instance, tune instead to get pure fretted fifths between adjacent strings, and fretted octaves between strings one removed.

No, you can’t. If you tune so that octaves with one string between are correct everywhere on the neck, that will force the tuning to be 12 tone equal temperament, and a fifth in 12 TET cannot be a perfect fifth.

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#119

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 10:36 PM UTC

[deleted]

Re: Why can't you tune your guitar? (2019)

#120

Post by ses1984 » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 10:44 PM UTC

jMyles wrote: post #114

post-it wrote: post #28

> If you watch slow-motion video of a guitar string vibrating, you’ll see a complex, evolving blend of squiggles. These squiggles are the mathematical sum of all of the string’s different harmonics. This is incorrect. If you watch a video like [0], the squiggles aren't real, they're an artifact of a rolling shutter camera. A real slowmo camera will correctly show the entire string vibrating[1]. The rest of the articl…

> If you watch a video like [0], the squiggles aren't real, they're an artifact of a rolling shutter camera. ...is this correct? You can say this about any oscillating phenomenon - that doesn't mean it's not 'real'. The "squiggles" are an artifact of the frequency of the string and the scan rate of the rolling shutter. You'll also see artifacting from a global shutter camera, where the "squiggles" will be an artifact…

How could you tell the note by looking at a string? Unless you’re talking by about marking timestamps and measuring the time between peaks. A 42 gauge string tuned to E or D or any other note are going to look basically the same.