Dulce et Decorum Est (1921) • Hacker News Board

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#111

Post by amelung » Sat, Mar 07, 2026, 6:14 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #102

amelung wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metrum Alcaicum: dul.cet.de.co:.rest.|pro:.pa.tri.a:.mo.ri: mor.set.fu.ga:.cem.|per.se.qui.tur.vi.rum nec.par.ci.tin.bel.li:s.iu.ven.tae po:pli.ti.bus.ti.mi.do:.que.ter.go (Not sure about the first syllable of "poplitibus": muta cum liquida and long "o"?) Reading it like in school (with qualitative stress marking the quantitative meter), that would be: dulcét decórest | pró patriá morí morsét fugácem | pérsequitúr vi…

Thanks! Minor note: I was taught that forms of esse are weak enough that they lose their vowel to elision, so it would be de.co:.rust. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prodelision This seems like it would never matter for esse or est , but I guess it could preserve a long vowel in a case like -V: es V-.

Yes, de.co:.rust. Thanks for reminding me, I never knew or had completely forgotten.

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#112

Post by amelung » Sat, Mar 07, 2026, 8:03 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #107

amelung wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Metrum Alcaicum: dul.cet.de.co:.rest.|pro:.pa.tri.a:.mo.ri: mor.set.fu.ga:.cem.|per.se.qui.tur.vi.rum nec.par.ci.tin.bel.li:s.iu.ven.tae po:pli.ti.bus.ti.mi.do:.que.ter.go (Not sure about the first syllable of "poplitibus": muta cum liquida and long "o"?) Reading it like in school (with qualitative stress marking the quantitative meter), that would be: dulcét decórest | pró patriá morí morsét fugácem | pérsequitúr vi…

> Not sure about the first syllable of "poplitibus" Lewis and Short doesn't mark that o short or long. This also occurred with vexo, which I assumed was because the first syllable of anything starting with vex- is necessarily long (because the 'x' is two non-liquid consonants). In the case of poples, 'l' is a liquid and a short vowel could be revealed by the syllabification po-ples (or po-pli-), but I guess this is n…

> is allowed to be long

or even determined to be long? The descriptions of the Alcaic strophe I found specify the first syllables of the first three verses as anceps but the first syllable of the fourth as long. Skimming the other odes in the third book, I havenʼt found another example where that would be doubtful. Maybe the hiatus candidates Trōica in 3:3, Pīeriō in 3:4, but fīet in a Sapphic strophe of 3:14 is certainly long.

But how is it long:

- probably not by position, because of muta cum liquida after the vowel. (An example for V.pl instead of Vp.l is capta virum puerosque ploret in 3:3.)

- the vowel length seems to be unclear, as indicated by Lewis / Short. I thought the etymology might help, but Walde / Hofmann tell that the etymology is unknown – and that a certain Muller Ait. W. 351 (?) is wrong to argue for a long o because it is clearly attested as short in verses by Accius and Lucretius.

So I am puzzled.

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#113

Post by balamatom » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 8:58 AM UTC

georgemcbay wrote: post #14

For modern readers we might need an update to the old lie about how it is sweet and fitting to die for an entirely different country than your own. One you have probably never even visited.

e.g. the USA

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#114

Post by balamatom » Sun, Mar 08, 2026, 9:00 AM UTC

BigTTYGothGF wrote: post #29

swader999 wrote: post #2

I prefer the poem Warpigs by Black Sabbath.

Wilfred Owen would never have dared to rhyme 'masses' with 'masses'.

Well, he did rhyme 'drowning' with 'drowning'...

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#115

Post by temp8830 » Tue, Mar 10, 2026, 6:20 PM UTC

dr-smooth wrote: post #63

temp8830 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is far from a monolith. It's an agglomeration of bits and pieces attached in the aftermath of WW2 to a Ukrainian core. But there are plenty of ethnic Poles, Hungarians and Russians whose lands got attached that don't identify with it. Before you downvote (OK, you can downvote first, I don't particularly care) - go look up what folks in Hungarian parts of Ukraine do to army recruiters.

Got to be honest with you, bro. This sounds like pro-russia FUD to me. I mean honestly, wasn't all of the USSR a big agglomeration? The bottom line now is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation recognized by the rest of the world, and they have been invaded.

Sure - every country has their own angle. And if you don't seek out a varied media diet - you'll only get one side.

If you are curious, open up Wikipedia and check out what year did Lviv get attached to Ukraine, who attached it, and how. Spoiler: somehow Comrade Stalin is a good guy when it comes to taking from the Poles and giving to Ukraine. The mental gymnastics some people perform really are quite amazing.

Ever wonder how those borders got internationally recognized? Seems to me that it had something to do with the world fearing Stalin just enough to let him draw that particular border. War never changes.

Re: Dulce et Decorum Est (1921)

#116

Post by srean » Wed, Mar 11, 2026, 9:12 AM UTC

jonstewart wrote: post #45

About 150 Iranian sailors drowned this morning, far from home, not a clear and present danger to anyone, no war declared on them by Congress, nor sanctioned by the UN. We could have demanded a surrender but instead we blew them up. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2026/mar/04/iran-war-...

And India which takes pride in the notion that a guest is god, that shop was India's guest for ceremonial exercises. It was sunk just barely outside India's territorial waters. The government tried very hard to ignore it, to look the other way till it couldn't.

I am Indian and I feel ashamed.