Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 125 posts

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#111

Post by nunez »

jotux wrote: post #36
mikkupikku wrote: post #5

I've been hearing buzz that the whole alcohol industry is in trouble, from a perfect storm of cultural changes that culminate in young people drinking less, and particularly drinking less in bars. With that context, it seems notable that the booze company in question here was purchased by a "beverage and medical cannabis " corp.

Tariffs, and retaliatory tariffs, have really messed up the US export market for alcohol too.

Big time. Canning and component prices are insanely high because of it. Pricing was always a problem for craft. It's even worse now.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#112

Post by x0x0 »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #37

The article says: In 2017 a US equity firm TSG Consumer Partners acquired a 22% stake in Brewdog. But unlike the Equity for Punks' "ordinary" shareholders, TSG was given "preference shares". That meant that if Brewdog was sold, TSG was first in the queue to get back its investment plus any return owed, possibly leaving little or nothing for small investors. It seems the preference shares weren't just 1x liquidation p…

I think you are mistaken. The pages are split -- see that closed quote and parenthesis. That quote is a continuation from pdf page 3, which has the opening parenthesis. Each of the cells for classes A, B, C overflow onto one page (each) that follows.

So the C holders are entitled to a distribution on sale or repurchase, but not an annual distribution.

> The Preferred 'C' Shares are entitled to receive dividends (and shall rank equally with the 'A' Ordinary Shares and 'B' Ordinary Shares). On a return of the entire capital of the Company or a winding up (other than a redemption of Shares or the purchase by the Company of its own Shares), the surplus assets of the Company available for distribution among the members (the "Distribution

... which leads into your quote above.

Frustratingly, it seems to be impossible to link these pdfs directly.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#113

Post by hackable_sand »

nradov wrote: post #81
soperj wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity can you prove that it's free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy? because i see this opinion espoused a lot online.

Can you prove it's not? At this point if anyone wants to propose an alternative then the burden of proof is on them. So far everything else that we've tried has failed disastrously.

How could everything else have failed?

You entrench yourself and don't want to move when you need to

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#114

Post by rahimnathwani »

x0x0 wrote: post #112
rahimnathwani wrote: post #37

The article says: In 2017 a US equity firm TSG Consumer Partners acquired a 22% stake in Brewdog. But unlike the Equity for Punks' "ordinary" shareholders, TSG was given "preference shares". That meant that if Brewdog was sold, TSG was first in the queue to get back its investment plus any return owed, possibly leaving little or nothing for small investors. It seems the preference shares weren't just 1x liquidation p…

I think you are mistaken. The pages are split -- see that closed quote and parenthesis. That quote is a continuation from pdf page 3, which has the opening parenthesis. Each of the cells for classes A, B, C overflow onto one page (each) that follows. So the C holders are entitled to a distribution on sale or repurchase, but not an annual distribution. > The Preferred 'C' Shares are entitled to receive dividends (and…

I didn't say it was an annual distribution.

I was quantifying the 'plus any return owed' in the original article.

In a sale, the C holders get the greater of:

A) a % of proceeds as if all shares were ordinary shares, or

B) what they paid the company for their shares PLUS 18% per annum accrued interest.

So if the company were sold 9 years after they invested X, and the sale proceeds were less than 4X, the C shareholders would get 100% of the proceeds, the ordinary shareholders would get nothing.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#115

Post by Incipient »

nradov wrote: post #62
general_reveal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the time most of us are dead, I think we’ll have enough evidence that human systems mostly don’t work (this is a personal realization, just for ourselves, no one will be able to strip you have the realization). If it worked for you, congrats, you were lucky.

What sort of evidence are you looking for? The current general system of free-market capitalism and multiparty democracy has created an unprecedented era of prosperity for those of us lucky enough to live in (relatively) civilized countries. There are lots of problems that we need to fix but on average by almost any objective metric the situation is better than ever.

China's system seems to be fairly rapidly delivering prosperity for their citizens too (from lots of accounts?). Neither free market nor democracy.

Insane surveillance and indoctrination aside...but still prosperity?

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#116

Post by dangus »

jpalawaga wrote: post #72
dangus wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The craft brewing industry became over-saturated. I also think product has suffered. I seem to remember more interesting and very good beers available. Like, where did all the fabulous Gose varieties go? It seems like everything available today is a hazy IPA or a basic lager. There used to be such a breadth of flavors. The other child comments about GLP-1 is also correct. That also seems to be a source of the protein…

drinking out sucks now. it's too expensive. landlords are killing drinking out. I love drinking craft beer. but when a single craft beer reaches up to $15 a beer, there's only so much I will partake, especially if I can have a $1 coors at home (which imo is still an expertly made product). similarly, canned vodka sodas or malt bevages (like whiteclaw) easily hit the $10-$15/can mark at establishments. it's no wonder…

I don’t think this is a solid hypothesis. I really don’t see these $15 a beer prices and I live in a major expensive city.

Unless your idea of drinking out is at a theme park.

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#117

Post by michaelt »

nailer wrote: post #11
testfrequency wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brewdog is pretty much a TGI Fridays that’s pretending to be edgy. People very much don’t like their beers, the atmosphere feels fake, and there’s significantly better options in any major UK city. It’s a shame they are closing and I feel for the employees, but nobody local really believes they are a respectable place, touristy really. While UK nightlife/drinking/pubs like every other city in the world is slower sinc…

Before Brewdog if you wanted IPAs in 2000s england you paid 8 quid for a single small bottle of imported Racer 5 from Utobeer in Borough Market. They weren’t the entire change but they were a big part of it.

Hasn’t the UK had CAMRA supporting small breweries, opposing monoculture, and running beer festivals with hundreds of different beers for like 50 years?

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#118

Post by [deleted] »

true_religion wrote: post #101
XCabbage wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Liquidation preferences that merely guarantee you get back the cash you put in before anyone else gets anything are a perfectly reasonable protection for investors. Otherwise, the risk is investors put in $1m for 10% of the company, only for the founder-CEO to decide a month later - perhaps totally genuinely and honestly after initial R&D - that the entire business plan wasn't viable after all and the best thing for…

I wouldn’t mind liquidation preferences with a multiplier so long as they are served after the 1x preferences. That way someone can’t come in and reap 900k on a 100k investment while the rest of the shareholders walk away with 1/10th of their investment.

[deleted]

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#119

Post by nailer »

michaelt wrote: post #117
nailer wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before Brewdog if you wanted IPAs in 2000s england you paid 8 quid for a single small bottle of imported Racer 5 from Utobeer in Borough Market. They weren’t the entire change but they were a big part of it.

Hasn’t the UK had CAMRA supporting small breweries, opposing monoculture, and running beer festivals with hundreds of different beers for like 50 years?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47224401

Re: Bars close and hundreds lose jobs as US firm buys Brewdog in £33M deal

#120

Post by ponector »

nradov wrote: post #102
ponector wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a story a year or two ago about exit where company was sold for $350m but all employees for nothing, even the founders.

OK, so what? Were any contracts violated?

Is it better to be screwed without contract violation?
Post reply on HN