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Ape Coding [fiction]

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Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#111

Post by derefr »

andai wrote: post #33

I call it Tradcoding. Not using AI for anything. (You just copy-paste from StackOverflow, as our forefathers once did ;) I also have two levels "beneath" vibe coding: - Power Coding: Like power armor, you describe chunks of code in English and it's built. Here you outsource syntax and stdlib, but remain in control of architecture and data flow. - Backseat Coding: Like vibe coding but you keep peeking at the code and…

I dunno; I think Tradcoding would go beyond regular modern coding, and rather imply some kind of regressive Nara Smith "first grind and sift the flour in your kitchen"-style programming.

No Internet connection, no cache of ecosystem packages, no digitized searchable reference docs; you sit in a room with a computer and a bookshelf of printed SDK manuals, and you make it work. I.e. the 1970s IBM mainframe coding experience!

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#112

Post by skeledrew »

pmg101 wrote: post #107
skeledrew wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile those who use a calculator merely hit that sin button and get on with the actual problem at hand, and life in general. Strongly suspect this is sarcasm, but if it isn't, I applaud your... gusto? Or whatever it is you have going on here.

It's not sarcasm, it's satire.

That's the right word, thanks.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#113

Post by supriyo-biswas »

derefr wrote: post #111
andai wrote: post #33

I call it Tradcoding. Not using AI for anything. (You just copy-paste from StackOverflow, as our forefathers once did ;) I also have two levels "beneath" vibe coding: - Power Coding: Like power armor, you describe chunks of code in English and it's built. Here you outsource syntax and stdlib, but remain in control of architecture and data flow. - Backseat Coding: Like vibe coding but you keep peeking at the code and…

I dunno; I think Tradcoding would go beyond regular modern coding, and rather imply some kind of regressive Nara Smith "first grind and sift the flour in your kitchen"-style programming. No Internet connection, no cache of ecosystem packages, no digitized searchable reference docs; you sit in a room with a computer and a bookshelf of printed SDK manuals, and you make it work. I.e. the 1970s IBM mainframe coding exper…

If you have a good stdlib (which in my case would mean something like Java for its extensive data structures) Tradcoding is entirely possible.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#114

Post by saulpw »

hparadiz wrote: post #97
saulpw wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tokens cost money; bugs get created and have to be found and fixed. Mature software has been more valuable than new software since 1946.

You sound like someone in 1992 explaining to me why the internet will never be useful.

And you sound like someone in 1995 saying "everyone will have their own webpage!" which is kind of true but also note how many people actually make their own custom website. Even for people who do have their own "custom" website, they usually use WordPress or an existing static-site generator with a theme they found and tweaked a little.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#115

Post by bandrami »

rnimmer wrote: post #52
djha-skin wrote: post #36

I would probably just call it hand coding , as we say we use hand tools in wood working. Many do this for fun, but knowing the hand tools also makes you a better woodworker. It's an interesting question: Will coding turn out to be more like landscaping, where (referring to the practice specifically of cutting grass) no one uses hand tools (to a first approximation)? Or it will it be more like woodworking, where every…

Can't wait to sell my artisinal hand-crafted software at the farmer's market. Humor aside, long-handed programming is losing its ability to compete in an open market. Automate or be left behind. This will become increasingly true of many fields, not just software.

Is it though? Really? I'm still waiting for even one of my vendors, commercial or open source, to actually speed up their release cadence.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#116

Post by bombcar »

derefr wrote: post #111
andai wrote: post #33

I call it Tradcoding. Not using AI for anything. (You just copy-paste from StackOverflow, as our forefathers once did ;) I also have two levels "beneath" vibe coding: - Power Coding: Like power armor, you describe chunks of code in English and it's built. Here you outsource syntax and stdlib, but remain in control of architecture and data flow. - Backseat Coding: Like vibe coding but you keep peeking at the code and…

I dunno; I think Tradcoding would go beyond regular modern coding, and rather imply some kind of regressive Nara Smith "first grind and sift the flour in your kitchen"-style programming. No Internet connection, no cache of ecosystem packages, no digitized searchable reference docs; you sit in a room with a computer and a bookshelf of printed SDK manuals, and you make it work. I.e. the 1970s IBM mainframe coding exper…

This isn't terribly far from "Knuth-coding" to call it something - imagining the program in WEB in its purest form and documenting what it does, almost irregardless of the actual programing language and how it is done.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#117

Post by D-Machine »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #82
saghm wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Producing code that does what's intended. The metric is fuzzy and based on the usage of the software, not the scale of lines of code. The extent of the importance of the code itself is that I'm practice software tends not to be "one and done", so you need to be able to go back and modify it to fix bugs, add features, etc., and it turns out that's usually hard when the code is sloppy. Those needs still should stem fro…

Would my user rather have a program that works 100% in 2 weeks, or a program that works 80% in one day? When the user needs a change made, would they prefer I spend another two weeks extending my perfect program, or throw a few LLMs at their sloppy code and have it done in a day?

Try this argument in any field where the stakes are high (e.g. medical diagnostics) and see how far this gets you.

This is really basic decision-theory stuff, often the cost of an error is far greater than the benefit of correctness.

Re: Ape Coding [fiction]

#120

Post by globular-toast »

boomskats wrote: post #75
pbohun wrote: post #24

It's not ape coding. It's skill coding. People who don't have the skill to do math and logic ask others to do it for them. The reason we have programming languages is the same reason we have musical notation or math notation. It is a far more concise and precise way of communicating than using natural languages. We could write music using natural language, but no one does because a single page of music would require…

It's funny that you mention music and notation: sheet music is very compact for musical absolutes like pitch/rhythm/harmony, but a huge part of what we care about with music is nuance, which doesn't reduce cleanly to symbols. Hence there are plenty of words in musical notation that try to describe the desired characteristics of performance, that can't be otherwise encoded into that notation. For example, "with feelin…

Actually, learning to sing was never really valued. Anyone can learn to sing, but for most that means being a backing singer. Being a lead/soloist is more about timbre and presence (including to a not insignificant extent looks). It's something you either have or you don't.
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