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New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

marginalia.nu

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Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#111

Post by cookiengineer »

marginalia_nu wrote: post #24
cookiengineer wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wanted to point out that em dashes are autocompleted by the iOS keyboard. So the false positives and true negatives might have some overlaps without more details. I think a better indicator would be to only detect em dashes with preceding and following whitespace characters, and general unicode usage of that user. Additionally, lots of Chinese and Russian keyboard tools use the em dash as well, when they're switchi…

I think there is a baseline number of human users that for one reason or another uses em-dashes, but this doesn't explain why they 10x more prevalent in green accounts.

> I think there is a baseline number of human users that for one reason or another uses em-dashes, but this doesn't explain why they 10x more prevalent in green accounts.

I'm not trying to negate the fact. I'm just pointing out that a correlation without another indicator is not evidence enough that someone is a bot user, especially in the golden age of rebranded DDoS botnets as residential proxy services that everyone seems to start using since ~Q4 2024.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#112

Post by relaxing »

ffsm8 wrote: post #108
lkey wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ynow what's fucked up? I knew within the first few sentences that you're doing that on purpose, but still found myself wondering if you're a an LLM. I mean I knew you weren't, but the question is already so deeply ingrained at this point - and then you use the pullet points to boot... This loss of trust is getting tiresome. Depending on context we've likely all wondered if something is astro turfed, but with the freq…

You have to assume everything is astroturf, and constantly remind yourself not to be swayed by the mood in the room.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#114

Post by OJFord »

d4mi3n wrote: post #50

I'm still salty that I can't use em-dashes anymore for fear of my writing being flagged as AI generated. Been using them for years—it's just `alt+shift+-` on a Mac keyboard and I find them more legible in many fonts compared to the simple dash on the typical numpad. It's so sad to me that good typographical conventions have been co-opted by the zeitgeist of LLMs.

Funnily enough I've actually started using them a little — it made me realise how much more legible/likable I find them.

(Until a few years ago I probably mostly only saw them in print, and I suppose it just never occurred to me that I liked them in particular vs. just the whole book being professionally typeset generally.)

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#115

Post by bakugo »

CharlesW wrote: post #20

A couple thoughts: (1) I don't recommend focusing disproportionately on one signal. They'll change, and are incredibly easy to optimize for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Signs_of_AI_writing (2) I do recommend taking one minute to dash a note off to hn@ycombinator.com if you see suspicious patterns. Dang and our other intrepid mods are preturnatually responsive, and appear to appreciate the extra eyeballs o…

Is there even an incentive to optimize for such signals, though? Em-dashes have been a known indicator of AI-generated text for a good while, and are still extremely prevalent. While someone who doesn't like AI slop and knows and what to look out for will notice and call out obvious AI comments, the unfortunate truth is that the majority of people simply cannot tell, and even among those who can, many don't care.

Obvious AI-generated posts and articles make it to the front page on a daily basis, and I get the impression that neither the average user nor the moderation team see that as a problem at all anymore.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#116

Post by relaxing »

a4isms wrote: post #86
atourgates wrote: post #35

Shoutout to my English Major comrades who have been using em-dashes forever, and have had to stop so we don't sound like AI. If AI starts use the New Yorker style diaeresis (umlaut-looking thing when there are two vowels in words like coöperate) I swear I'm gonna lose it.

I worked for GitHub for a time. There was a cultural abhorrence of the diaeresis, it was considered reader-hostile and elitist. I refused to coöperate with that edict internally, although I grant that every company has the right to micro-manage communications with the public.

It is reader hostile and elitist.

Is there any good argument in favor of it, or any other house style quirks for that matter, other than in-group signaling?

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#117

Post by lkey »

ffsm8 wrote: post #108
lkey wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Ynow what's fucked up? I knew within the first few sentences that you're doing that on purpose, but still found myself wondering if you're a an LLM. I mean I knew you weren't, but the question is already so deeply ingrained at this point - and then you use the pullet points to boot... This loss of trust is getting tiresome. Depending on context we've likely all wondered if something is astro turfed, but with the freq…

I'm proud? to say I've gotten the 'are you using an LLM' question in a meeting when doing off the cuff fluent corpo jargon too.

To date, I've never used an LLM directly. I find them deeply repellant, and I've yet to be convinced that there exists a sufficiently tuned prompt that will make me not hate their literally 'mid' output.

Loss of trust though, that's a societal issue of this gilded age of grifters and scammers. Until we have a system of accountability and consequences for serial lying, we're gonna drown in this shit. LLMs are jet fuel for our existing environment of impunity.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#118

Post by cloverich »

bobomonkey wrote: post #113

I had a past life of drumming up community comments for engagment: The only thing that's changed is that humans are getting lazy and using AI. Fake comments have always been a thing.

I'm sure you can't share details but would be cool to hear more about it generally speaking, what worked and not etc. Especially if it involved HN.

Our company is being attacked rn in tech media and at least some of it, gut feeling wise, seems obviously sponsored / promoted by competitors. I know that's not surprising, but never watched it happen from this side before.

Re: New accounts on HN more likely to use em-dashes

#120

Post by doe88 »

I don't understand what is the purpose of these bots? Nihilism? Vandalism? At first I doubted when people were saying that such and such comments was AI generated, I didn't understand the goal, the motives so I thought it couldn't be ; but lately I understood how dead wrong I was, we are submerged, I came to realize that we are eaten by a sea of these useless comments.
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