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Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

blog.janestreet.com

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Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

>Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? How is finance not exactly that?

I think I have a very different idea of what "exactly" means; I would expect set equality, but at best you're using it to describe a massive superset.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#113
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The market" here is just a convenient substitute for "people weighted by the disposable income", which today roughly approximates to "rich people".

what's your point?

I wasn't really sure how to respond, it seemed obvious to me, so I put your question with the two comments into Claude. I genuinely think it gave a great response. I encourage you (or anybody) to try yourself next time, but here it is:

The second person was essentially unpacking the phrase "the market" to reveal who it actually represents. Here are the top 3 interpretations of their point:

1. The market isn't a neutral arbiter — it's a voting system where money is the vote. When we say "the market decides," we're really saying that people with more money have more say. A billionaire's preference for a luxury yacht counts for vastly more than a poor person's need for affordable housing. So "market outcomes" aren't some objective measure of what society wants — they reflect what wealthy people want.

2. The first person's critique is correct, but misdirected. By saying "the market" is indifferent to people's well-being, the first commenter was almost treating the market like an external, autonomous force. The second person is saying: it's not some mysterious system — it's just rich people's preferences given structural power. The problem isn't the abstraction called "the market"; the problem is inequality in who gets to participate meaningfully in it.

3. The language of "the market" obscures a political reality. Calling something a "market outcome" makes it sound natural, inevitable, and impersonal. But framing it as "rich people's preferences dominate resource allocation" makes it sound like what it actually is — a political and social choice about whose interests get prioritized. The second person is essentially calling out the ideological function of the word "market" as a way to launder what is really a power structure.

The three interpretations overlap, but they emphasize different things: the mechanics of how markets work, the validity of the first person's critique, and the rhetorical/political role of market language respectively.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need market makers like Jane Street to have well functioning markets. The markets have shown themselves to be an excellent way of applying human potential to things like crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines.

Markets existed before HFTs, they will exist without them as well.

Did I suggest otherwise?

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#115
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? How is finance not exactly that?

I think I have a very different idea of what "exactly" means; I would expect set equality, but at best you're using it to describe a massive superset.

Modern financial system is the single greatest invention in the history of man for pushing resources towards things like "crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc"

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#116
post #82

Model interpretability is going to be the final frontier of software. You used to need to debug the code. Now you'll need to debug the AI.

With the number of operations and the error rate in GPUs this is going to be interesting in SOTA models.

Don't forget quantization..

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High frequency quants almost certainly don't directly provide a massive social good, but they're one of the many facilitators enabling the smooth functioning of markets that do. But FWIW, the comment I was replying didn't seem to be specifically critical of high frequency quants. Dismissing the entire field as something that doesn't contribute to society is beyond absurd.

Moving money from one pile to another is only useful when the rest of us do actual work. The mistake that the west is making is assuming moving piles of money from one place to another is the actual work. There is no value in pure finance.

You can't live in a vacuum, and you'll struggle to find a career in "pure finance".

> The mistake that the west is making is assuming moving piles of money from one place to another is the actual work.

Nobody assumes that.

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#119
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? If these sectors offered competitive salaries - sure, talent would flock to them. As a former chemist, I struggled to find a job that didn't pay scraps, no matter the industry - from big pharma to advanced materials. Eventually, I just gave up and went into the IT, which is 3x-10x better paid (at the very le…

We let the market dictate how society's resources are allocated. And we see, as a result, how the market is actually not at all interested in the satisfaction and well-being of the people in society.

There was a huge inflection point in basically everything around 1971. [1] That was US pulled out of Bretton Woods and the USD became completely unbacked by anything, enabling the government to 'print' infinite money. How can market forces be the one deciding anything when literally trillions of imaginary dollars keeps being dumped into it, in a highly prejudiced fashion, by the government and their preferred institutions?

At that point the historical correlations between money and basically everything, which had sustained for centuries - even though the industrial revolution, began completely breaking down, and infinitely began skyrocketing to levels never seen before, in the US at least.

[1] - https://wtfhappenedin1971.com/

Re: Can you reverse engineer our neural network?

#120
post #175

[stub for offtopicness]

All I think when I see this is "this intelligence wasted on finance and ads." Can you imagine human potential if it was somehow applied to crop harvesting efficiency, new medicines, etc? Not everything has to be perfectly efficient but it just saddens me to see all these great minds doing what, adversarially harvesting margin from the works of others?

Is your opinion that one is more worthwhile than the other. It is my opinion that it is the other way. We have a way to express this: we each make weighted votes with how valuable we think something is and how good we were at making things valuable for others (money). Then people try to do the thing that is voted for.

To be honest, this system seems pretty good.

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