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Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
111–118 of 118 posts
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#112> If tech talent can’t come to the U.S., American companies will go where the talent is. LOL! They're going to send the jobs where the wages are cheaper, and that's exactly what they're doing. IIRC, my employer stopped offering new H1-B sponsorships in most cases, after they opened an office in India (10+ years ago). They didn't open the office because they had a hard time hiring in the US. They opened it because the…
The language people use is funny. When companies offshore skilled factory jobs to foreign countries, they call that "offshoring." But when it comes to programmers, they call it "going where the talent is." They act like programmers are in a different class than machinists.
Ehh, it's called offshoring for programmers too. Maybe "outsourcing" in some places. The Indian IT giants themselves call it the onsite / offshore model, with a few "onsite" people -- liasons typically on H1B embedded in the clients' offices -- coordinating the much larger "offshore" teams.
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some ways they are. For a bit of time I worked offshore for a company in the US. That was pure cost cutting, I was making probably around 5x-10x less than someone with similar skills in the US. After a while I landed a job that required me to migrate to a different country. I actually make more here than the average salary for a local engineer. I don't know many machinists that are hired from halfway across the gl…
I don't know about machinists but I do know about (and know one personally) welders with certain specialties that can basically name their price. Such as the ones that can fix gear in running steelplants where shutting the thing down would require a rebuild.
We are in agreement then.
Specialized skill is valued in the correct context, when there is demand for it.
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right. Demand is fairly rigid from companies who need the labor. But they, as for-profit entities, want to maximize shareholder value, so instead of paying market rate for labor when the market rate is high, companies attempt to decrease the market rate by increasing labor supply through a variety of means - lobbying for modern indentured servitude (H1b's), shipping jobs overseas, etc. This stands in direct contrast…
> modern indentured servitude Can confirm those targeted by H1B visas, etc don't think like that at all. I was in the US for a while on a F1 visa, which allowed me to work for a couple years, and I was super grateful for the opportunity. Had a couple positions with wages I heard some ranting was "too low", while I found it very livable and was even able to save a significant amount. I can imagine it being very simila…
That description is more about the power dynamics at play. H1b workers are often expected to work longer hours, and to do so with lower pay than American citizens, and not even think of complaining about it. In the US visa system, if an H1b worker loses their job, they have 90 days to get a new job (next to impossible when visa sponsorship is required) or else they lose legal residency rights and must either self-deport or be in violation of immigration law (which is a great way to screw yourself over on future opportunities). The resulting dynamic is one where both the h1b employer and the h1b employee know that the employer can basically ruin the employee's life whenever they want, for any cause (including no cause), at the drop of a hat. This shapes the working relationship in negative, coercive ways. That coercive aspect is the basis for describing it as "modern indentured servitude".
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#115We warned everyone that this would happen [0] but HN fell for the populism trap. And no one on the Hill will do anything to impact services exports, especially for voters who work in maligned industries like Tech [1], Big Oil [2], and Wall Street [3] that are overwhelmingly concentrated in single party states like California, Washington, Texas, and New York and as such can't swing elections the same way an Autoworker…
Warned? I knew this was going to happen and want to see more of it. I don't believe in government enforced discrimination based on country of origin. If you can't compete with someone overseas that's on you, don't make it my problem and don't go crying to the government to force others to hire you.
Do you believe in workers' rights?
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Warned? I knew this was going to happen and want to see more of it. I don't believe in government enforced discrimination based on country of origin. If you can't compete with someone overseas that's on you, don't make it my problem and don't go crying to the government to force others to hire you.
Do you believe in workers' rights?
It depends if that's a euphemism for nativist negative-sum protectionism.
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you believe in workers' rights?
It depends if that's a euphemism for nativist negative-sum protectionism.
If I can't compete with someone overseas because I legally have to get a minimum wage and various benefits, while overseas guy will work 996 with a dollar an hour, why is that on me? We can either have worker's rights or we can have a globally equal competitive field, but not both.
Re: Silicon Valley can't import talent like before. So it's exporting jobs
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
It depends if that's a euphemism for nativist negative-sum protectionism.
If I can't compete with someone overseas because I legally have to get a minimum wage and various benefits, while overseas guy will work 996 with a dollar an hour, why is that on me? We can either have worker's rights or we can have a globally equal competitive field, but not both.
The problem for me is that your conceptualization of worker's rights negatively impacts poorer people, stuck in poorer countries, who need that work more for basic survival.
So if we're forming normative opinions based on morality (reducing suffering or whatnot), why would I support that? And if we're not not appealing to morality, then what are you appealing to, and why would I want to go along with it?
The only argument I see is a nativist and protectionist one, which uses the superficial facade of morality as a misdirection.
My intention is not to punch down on anyone. I support some level of taxation and wealth redistribution. I support anti-slavery legislation.