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CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

koreaherald.com

111–120 of 274 posts

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#111

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

> It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM.

It's not dumping, it's the opposite.

Sam Altman's stunt has created massive amounts of fictitious demand (OpenAI isn't using those wafers it's ordering) and triggered massive panic-buying from everyone else.

Prices are arteficially high, this has turbocharged China's fab and R&D budgets as you observe.

> is about to pay off with some industry dominance soon.

They're not looking to dump the semiconductor markets. They're looking to invade Taiwan.

All this buildout in their semiconductor industry is to detach themselves from the western semiconductor industry that will either sanction them if they invade Taiwan, or in the case of TSMC, suffer major damage in the ensuing conflict.

That the collapse/destruction of the Taiwanese semiconductor and electronics industries will utterly ruin the western tech industry is somewhere between a happy coincidence and acceptable collateral damage to them. No dumping required.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SD is obviously the wrong interface for this but "High Bandwidth Flash" (stacked flash akin to HBM) is in development for exactly this kind of problem. AMD actually made a GPU with onboard flash maybe a decade ago but I think it was a bit early. Today I would love to have a pool of 50GB/s storage attached to the GPU.

First gen HBF is targeting something like 1.2 TB/s!

Oh definitely. The AMD past product just stuck 4x m.2 slots onto the board. Today that approach would be 50-60 GB/s read speed which would be useful enough for something that any of the vendors could build with existing components.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The domestic industry is still there, only instead of mass-market DRAM it has started making higher-valued varieties of the same stuff. If there's a trade war, they can easily reconvert to making the mass-market stuff, just at much higher cost. You can't expect more than that, since they never really were as big or as low-cost as the lowest cost suppliers can be in normal times. That's not "losing" capacity, it's jus…

No, the domestic industry stagnates (at best) or disappears (at worst). You can't just spin up a 2nm wafer fab when the latest you've been running is a 300nm process. Compare: US shipbuilding industry to China or SK.

We don't want to spin up wafer fabs because, historically, they had a tendency to turn into Superfund sites. That's why the more modern approach is to build the fab in the middle of a frickin' desert.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not really a blunder though. Given that total capacity is tightly constrained, Samsung and SK Hynix are happy to focus on what they do at their best and with the highest margins. Why shouldn't they supply the HBM market?

It's putting all eggs in one basket. If/when the higher-margin category collapses, they'll have no fallback. Imagine Chevrolet had discontinued Impalas and other low-margin cars, and switched to Corvettes during the pandemic

Good description of what actually happened. Do they even sell any conventional 2-door passenger cars besides the Corvette these days?

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#115

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

How's it dumping below cost when hey can simply sell for 100% margins instead of western makers selling for 400%.

It's easy to misread, but they're not arguing that. Note the "eventually" and "but right now".

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#116

This decade is going to end with Chinese dominance in everything. Trump and AI handed them everything they need on a platter.

Western European countries got dominant, then got arrogant, letting the USA eat their lunch. USA got dominant, got arrogant, letting China eat their lunch. China is indeed getting dominant. They will get arrogant one day. Meanwhile, Western Europe and the USA are still very good places to live.

> China is indeed getting dominant. They will get arrogant one day

China was dominant. They got arrogant before 1840, then there's 100 years of humiliation.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#117

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

It's amazing what can be achieved when you can plan 5 years in advance, instead of just making the line go up for the next quarter.

Not five, but likely twenty-five. Not specific plans but attention: situation changes all the time, but the interest remains.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#118

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

It's amazing what can be achieved when you can plan 5 years in advance, instead of just making the line go up for the next quarter.

History is littered with the corpses of those slaughtered by the millions in the name of great leader’s 5 year plans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#119

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

> It is wise … to price well below cost push out other players forever

I challenge you to name a single successful example of this that isn’t state enforced.

Re: CXMT has been offering DDR4 chips at about half the prevailing market rate

#120
post #119

As a outside observer, NAND and DRAM prices have skyrocket ed with the AI infrastructure boom just as the China-based fabs are coming online. It is wise for these Chinese fabs to eventually use a very aggressive dumping strategy to price well below cost push out other players forever, especially in DRAM. But right now it seems they can max out their supply capacity without selling below cost. Appears to me like China…

> It is wise … to price well below cost push out other players forever I challenge you to name a single successful example of this that isn’t state enforced.

Amazon?
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