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Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

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Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#111

Post by kjksf »

blfr wrote: post #89
ForHackernews wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but Brits voted against EU immigrants.

Yeah, what I am saying is that these votes, regardless of their formal content, are usually an expression of general anti-immigrant sentiment. Like voting for AfD. I doubt many people look at this organization and its leaders to conclude that "ah, here is the talent I would love to have running my country." They're merely the only available option against. Same with brexit.

UK pays for free housing of 110 thousand immigrants. And that's just one of the many well fare benefits.

But when they face deficit, they raise taxes instead of, crazy idea, not spending billions of money taken from UK citizens to provide free housing and food for foreigners.

UK citizens are rightfully pissed off that their life is getting worse.

That's not the social contract and being pissed off about that is not racism. It's self preservation.

The same happens in Spain, Germany, France, Italy.

That's your big mystery of why AfD or Reform UK are popular: because the parties currently in power are flat out refusing to implement clear desires of their voters.

That's how democracy is supposed to work: AfD and Reform UK and Le Pen are gaining because they are promising to implement the desires of citizens of German, UK or France.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#112

Post by tolerance »

blfr wrote: post #59

It is constantly shocking to me that no matter how many times and where in the west people vote against immigration (which is what most of these votes boil down to), they can never get it. It's truly a crown in the gutter moment where you can be completely off-the-wall nuts (vide AfD) and, if you're just willing to campaign on anti-immigration, your ranks will instantly swell. Yet the establishment is somehow complet…

The transition from Nationalism to Globalism and back to Nationalism (rather, a more broad iteration of it) cannot be achieved with micro revolutions like what we see in the US.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#113

Post by breakyerself »

kjksf wrote: post #92
breakyerself wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the establishment knows how integral to the economy immigration is and because it isn't that easy to stop even for an island. Unless you want to shut down tourism and trade.

Based on what data? The immigration we're talking about, the one of Africans etc. immigrants flooding west, is destructive to the economies based on pretty much every statistic I've seen. Those immigrants are on welfare in disproportional numbers compared to native population. E.g. in US 72% Somalis are on welfare and the same stats are in West Europe. They cost the state gigantic amount of money. And per-capita crim…

> 72% Somalis are on welfare and the same stats are in West Europe.

This is bullshit. Donald Trump isn't a credible source on statistics about immigration. The highest percentage I can find for food stamps is 54% and a high percentage of food stamps recipients are employed.

https://cis.org/Report/Somali-Immigrants-Minnesota?utm_sourc...

Asylum seekers in the US are a net positive source of revenue. They also create jobs and drive economic growth.

https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/28fe4e756...

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#114

Post by _9za9 »

rswail wrote: post #95
_9za9 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That is a condition on their commercial broadcast license. They are not a government owned, funded, or controlled enterprise. They are a commercial entity operating on broadcast airwaves covered by a government licence.

[flagged]

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#115

Post by saubeidl »

juggerl6 wrote: post #105
ido wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both the average and mean UK citizen is unambiguously better off today than whenever the golden age of the empire was.

[flagged]

I see you created an account just to... publicly sympathise with the Nazis?

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#116

Post by danaris »

tirant wrote: post #86
Schmerika wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the cohort most likely to vote well when they do. The 18 year olds who vote less but vote for good parties are doing good, overall. The 60 year olds voting Tory their whole lives - not so much. It's very easy to blame the young for all the problems earlier generations created and exacerbated. Not too wise though.

Who defines what voting well is? Or what a good party is? The observed damage that the UK has inflicted to itself has been caused so far by all the parties that have been in power.

Voting in ways that genuinely serve their interests, perhaps?

Voting in an educated manner?

Voting for candidates and policies that will help people overall, rather than those that will hurt people overall, just so that they can hurt Those People?

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#117

Post by kjksf »

netsharc wrote: post #99
ForHackernews wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but Brits voted against EU immigrants.

Because Poles and Romanians are "other" enough to be hated... Ironically Britain had then to "import" people from Asia, Africa to e.g. work in the hospitals. The foreigner-hate is so short-sighted. Your underpaid hospital worker, house cleaner, fruit picker, taxi driver, UberEats delivery is usually foreign, they don't mind working the exploitative conditions because for them the money is much better than home, provi…

First, they didn't have to.

Crazy idea: educate more people, lower barriers to entry, hire people from poorer western countries and not Africa.

Poland has hospitals staffed 100% by Polish people. What prevents UK from doing the same?

Second, if immigration was only for skilled workers to plug shortages of certain skills, it would not be a problem.

It's a problem because in 2025 estimated 41 thousand unskilled people, mostly young men, landed in UK just via small boats.

Those are not doctors or nurses or engineers or even fruit pickers. They are unemployed and therefore a massive drain on British resources.

UK gov for some unexplained reason decided that they are responsible for housing and feeding them. The money comes from taxing UK citizens.

The housing is zero sum game so it also comes from depriving some UK citizens, driving up the prices.

And those people get sick too so they also take away hospital resources from UK citizens.

And they don't work so you now have mostly young males loitering in neighborhoods.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#118

Post by ksec »

sgt wrote: post #58
saubeidl wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Help me understand your thinking. I was very against Brexit (and still am). What is there to be gained, in your opinion? In my view, you traded being one of the leading voices in what is increasingly shaping up to be one of the world's superpowers for being a somewhat isolated middle power, nostalgic for its former glory. Why would that be worth it?

UK did not need the EU for trade agreements. Those can be set up separately. There were a number of examples where the UK kept losing control, and instead having the EU try to determine the direction. This led to loss in sovereignty and freedom. Sadly though it doesn't seem like the UK politicians are taking advantage of this (regulatory, laws, borders, immigrations etc) just yet, but at least now it's possible. My p…

I dont disagree with you on the chain of thoughts, the only problem is your thesis assumes UK could go back to its glory and superpower. Remembered by many during and after the World War II. And innovate to stand on its own, without the support of EU.

All of that is theoretically possible. And a very admirable goal to have. The problem is modern Britain is no longer what it once was. From Strategy to execution it is increasingly rare to find a field where they lead, and more often then not talents that produces value are captured by the US.

The current climate, culture and geopolitical issues suggest it will take much longer than 15 years, likely a whole generation cycle roughly 30 years. And depending on how you count it we are at 6 - 10 years already.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#119

Post by danaris »

mikkupikku wrote: post #26
Upvoter33 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty dismissive ("when they grow up") of the group of people in the 16-24 year old range. These are not children; most of that group is 18 and over. You imply noise but there is clearly some signal in this result.

How old are you now, and how much of what you believe now is the same as when you were 16-24? It shouldn't be controversial to say that young people are brimming with idealism while being low on experience. FWIW I think Brexit was dumb but I never felt strongly about any of it because it doesn't effect me in any way. I'm not saying their views on Brexit specifically are likely to change.

I'm in my 40s, and I have only gotten more and more progressive as I've "grown up".

You want to know why?

Because I've met more marginalized people. When I was 16, I didn't know anyone who was openly queer, and I lived in a moderately-affluent, nearly-all-white area of the US.

Now, I know many people who are queer, poor, disabled, and/or people of color, and because I was raised to care about people and believe to value every human life, I want them to be treated as well as I (a middle-class, white, straight, cis man) am.

Re: Over 80% of 16 to 24-year-olds would vote to rejoin the EU

#120

Post by kjksf »

breakyerself wrote: post #75
ForHackernews wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume it's economically catastrophic to cut off the supply of young, low-wage labour and that's why no responsible government will ever do it.

Bingo. Just like wanting to leave the EU was self destructive cutting off immigration is as well. The US is in the process of trying to hobble its own economy right now.

Poland has almost zero immigration and is one of the fastest European economies.

Do explain the miracle of Poland. What kind of economics work for Poland but couldn't possibly work for England.

Do explain how 41 thousand unskilled young man landing in UK shores via small boats are good for economy. Majority of them do no work, not even the low skill jobs. They cost UK citizens a lot of money because UK gov took upon themselves to pay for their housing and food.

The same stats are in every country that allowed massive immigration: the immigrants are a massive drain on resources of the country. And those resources are 100% come from taxing labor of citizens.

Currently UK pays for housing 100 thousand immigrants.

It's pretty obvious that if they stopped paying for housing them, they would save a lot of money.

Properly managed immigration could, in theory, be a net positive for countries.

But as it stands now if you combine immigration with well fare, you get a net drain.

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