Live data from Hacker News

How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

cepr.org

111–120 of 144 posts

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#111
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder how AI will influence the work of patent officers. Perhaps it will make patent trolling a bit harder because it is easier to look up existing work and to check if an idea is obvious?

> Perhaps it will make patent trolling a bit harder because it is easier to look up existing work and to check if an idea is obvious? Haha, funny :) No, it'll be like the rest of the industries that use more AI, they'll spend the same amount of effort (as little as possible) and won't validate anything, and provide worse service, not better. AIslop is everywhere, and seemingly unavoidable for companies to use more an…

The validation point is real. We tested this with AI presentation tools specifically - gave 6 of them the same prompt and fact-checked every claim against primary sources. Best accuracy was 44%. Most were under 20%.

The pattern was consistent: the tools produce confident, well-formatted output that looks thoroughly researched. But more than half the statistics were either distorted or completely fabricated. The worst part was finding the same fake stats appearing across multiple tools - not because they independently verified anything, but because they all absorbed the same bad data from training.

The productivity gains from AI are real, but so is the validation cost. People just aren't accounting for it.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#112
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming large-scale automation[1]: workers have in aggregate automated themselves. It takes labor to automate. And yet those former workers are now a “burden”? We’re assuming automation, so was the making of the food stuff, the transportation of the food stuff, the automation of the infrastructure maintenance... was that done or not? Where is the burden being felt? You’re gonna call the people that built everything…

More jobless are a burden in a capitalism based social security system. Has nothing to do if those build something useful or not. Caputalism doesn't care. In the end the upper 0.1% get the profit and those who still have jobs have to finance the social security systems. More jobless and less working means the jobless become a burden and in the long run the system will fail. So you either need to tax automation or the…

I know you are speaking in real terms about how the system works. But I don’t need to describe that system in such utterly system-serving (for lack of words) terms.

> In the end the upper 0.1% get the profit and those who still have jobs have to finance the social security systems. More jobless and less working means the jobless become a burden and in the long run the system will fail.

Who is the burden in that sentence?

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#113

Its depressing when people are hearing managers are openly asking all employees to pitch in ideals for AI in order to reduce employee headcount. For those hearing this at work, better prepare an exit plan.

I know at least two different companies in Italy that are very hard on shoving NotebookLM and Gemini down their employees (not IT companies, talking banking/insurance/legal).

Which for the positions/roles involved does make some sense (drafting documents/research).

But it seems like most people are annoyed, because the people shoving those aren't even fully able to show how to leverage the tools, the attitude seems like "you need to do what you do right now under lots of pressure, but also find the time to understand how to use these tools in your own role".

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#114

x

I work in a big corporation in Europe. Officially we're only allowed to use CoPilot, but a lot of people just have their own subscriptions. Management either turns a blind eye or is actively encouraging investigating other AI solutions. Of course, people need to take care of confidentiality, data protection and all that, but a lot of work is just not affected by those concerns.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#115
post #5

FWIW, these studies are too early. Large orgs have very sensitive data privacy considerations and they're only right now going through the evaluation cycles. Case in point, this past week, I learned Deloitte only recently gave the approval in picking Gemini as their AI platform. Rollout hasn't even begun yet which you can imagine is going to take a while. To say "AI is failing to deliver" because only 4% efficiency i…

Agreed. We've been on the agentic coding roller coaster for only about 9-10 months. It only got properly usable on larger repositories around 3-4 months ago. There are a lot of early adopters, grass roots adoption, etc. But it's really still very early days. Most large companies are still running exactly like they always have. Many smaller companies are worse and years/decades behind on modernizing their operations.

We sell SAAS software to SMEs in Germany. Forget AI, these guys are stuck in the last century when it comes to software. A lot of paper based processes. Cloud is mainly something that comes up in weather predictions for them. These companies don't have budget for a lot of things. The notion that they'll overnight switch to being AI driven companies is arguably more than a bit naive. It indicates a lack of understanding of how the real world works.

There are a lot of highly specialized niche companies that manufacture things that are part of very complex supply chains. The transition will take decades, not months/weeks. They run on demand for products they specialize in making. Their revenue is driven by demand for that stuff and their ability to make and ship it. There are a lot of aspects about how they operate that are definitely not optimal and could be optimized. And AI provides plenty of additional potential to do something about it. But it's not like they were short of opportunities to do so. It takes more than shiny new tools for these companies to move. Change is invasive and disruptive for these companies. And costly. They take the slow and careful perspective to change.

There's a clean split between people that are AI clued in and people working in these companies. The Venn diagram has almost no overlap. It's a huge business opportunity for people that are clued in: a rapidly growing amount of people mainly active in software development. Helping the people on the other side of the diagram is what they'll be mostly doing going forward. There's going to be a huge demand for building AI based stuff for these people. It's not a zero sum game, the amount of new work will dwarf the amount of lost work.

Some of that change is going to be painful. We all have to rethink what we do and re-align our plans in life around that. I'm a programmer. Or I was one until recently. Now I'm a software builder. I still cause software to come into existence. A lot of software actually. But I'm not artisanally coding most of it anymore.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't think that is a fair point, the manipulation was done on a topic of which there are hardly any other sources (hot dog eating competition winner). If you want to manipulate what an AI tells you is the F-150 street price, you will complete with hundreds of sources. The AI will unlikely pick yours.

The marketing game is already moving to game LLMs. Somehow you have to get what you want to have into the training data or the context window. Currently it is probably just mostly quantity that does the trick w.r.t. training data. So e.g. spam the Internet with "product comparisons" featuring your product as the winner.

Shifting the balance on training data seems like the wrong approach vs focusing on showing up in agent search tool results and swaying them there.

It’s been a long time since agents couldn’t even conduct web search and could only riff off their model. But the examples in this thread are things an agent would search for immediately, and agents are leaning harder on tool calls and external info over time, not less.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#117
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then declined as sponsored results and SEO degraded things It didn't decline because of this. It declined because of a general decade long trend of websites becoming paywalled and hidden behind a login. The best and most useful data is often inaccessible to crawlers. In the 2000s, everything was open because of the ad driven model. Then ad blockers, mobile subscription model, and the dominance of a few apps such as I…

I seem to remember very few ads on the early web. Most sites I frequented were run by volunteers who paid out of their own pockets for webspace.

What year? 90s?

I remember ads everywhere in 2000s.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#118
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. We are only just beginning to get the most out of the internet, and the WWW was invented almost 40 years ago - other parts of it even earlier. Adoption takes time, not to speak of the fact that the technology itself is still developing quickly and might see more and more use cases when it gets better.

> We are only just beginning to get the most out of the internet The Internet has been getting worse pretty steadily for 20 years now

Its worse but we are more dependent on it than ever.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dignity has no calories, though.

Yeah but it's the job of the elected governments to build and maintain housing, education, social and welfare systems for their population that keep up with the challenges of the times, not the responsibility of the private sector to hold back progress and inefficiency just so more people can stay in employment even if they're not needed anymore. The governments however have been and continue to be ill prepared to th…

> but it's the job of the elected governments to build and maintain housing, education, social and welfare systems for their population that keep up with the challenges of the times

I'd say those things are the job of the population itself, via a wide range of pluralistic institutions. The job of governments, which are just specific organizations within a much larger society, is primarily to maintain public order.

Re: How AI is affecting productivity and jobs in Europe

#120
post #5

FWIW, these studies are too early. Large orgs have very sensitive data privacy considerations and they're only right now going through the evaluation cycles. Case in point, this past week, I learned Deloitte only recently gave the approval in picking Gemini as their AI platform. Rollout hasn't even begun yet which you can imagine is going to take a while. To say "AI is failing to deliver" because only 4% efficiency i…

I think people want to read how AI is not working , so those are the articles that are going to get traction.

Personally, I don't think the current frontier models would help the company I work for all that much. The company exists because of the skill in networking and human friendships. The company exist in spite of technological incompetence.

At some level of ability though, a threshold will be reached and a competitor will eat our lunch whole by building a new business around this future model.

It is not going to be a % more productive than our business. It is like the opposite of 0 to 1. The company I work for will go from 1 to zero really quick because we simply won't be able to compete on anything besides those network ties. Those ties will break fast if every other dimension of the business is not even competitive and really in a different category.

Post reply on HN