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Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

greenwald.substack.com

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Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#111

Post by tremon »

softwaredoug wrote: post #89
chii wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do we build a resilient system that doesn’t rely on single platforms? by making sure that compatibility is enshrined into law, so that competition occurs, rather than walled gardens. It has to start at the top - gov't has to mandate it.

Anything that relies on gov't can be undone by gov't. Or weaponized by gov't. We need resilience that's hard to regulate or undo.

You already had resilience that was very hard to undo: three independent branches of government, indirect elections via the electoral college, separation of church and state, strong protections for freedom of speech, independent journalism. Yet you still managed to have it undone.

What does a non-government solution look like to you that can't be undone by the People?

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#112

Post by jmyeet »

Once again we see tech companies capitulating to the US government who is actually doing the things we accuse China is theoretically doing in the future.

I don't own a smart speaker. It's actually annoying because there are so few options for a music system now. I've previously owned a Sonos but honestly it's just not a polished product. Anyway, my issue with smart speakers is I don't want a cloud-connected always-on microphones in my house. Sorry but no. You simply never know when law enforcement will use such a thing via a warrant nobody can tell you about (ie FISA). It could be targeted to you, individually but there are far worse alternatives.

It could be a blanket warrant against, say, people posting negatively against ICE online. Or microphones couldd be used to identify such people based on what it hears. You just have no control.

And once again, Google handed over PII voluntarily to the government recently [1]. Companies don't need to comply with administrative subpoenas. It takes a court order signed by a judge to enforce.

All of this is just another reason why China was correct to keep US tech companies out, basically. But here's where it's going to get much worse for the US and those same companies: when the EU decides enough is enough and creates their own versins that are subject to EU jurisdiction.

[1]: https://techcrunch.com/2026/02/10/google-sent-personal-and-f...

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#113

Post by WarmWash »

bloak wrote: post #82
WarmWash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an intractable problem because people now have a general expectation that everything is "free". Look at Kagi's success and compare it to Google. It doesn't even register. People need to start paying for things, because if you're not paying for it, you're not in control of it.

Alternatively, basic stuff like e-mail and payment processing should be provided by the state. After all, the state provides a road network, which is similarly essential and rather more expensive.

Giving the state control of things to prevent the state from easily spying on people...

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#114

Post by embedding-shape »

alejohausner wrote: post #92
jeffbee wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Yay" Greenwald is (still) playing footsie down at the Nazi bar. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2026/feb/07/revealed-how-s...

Rumble is indeed a free for all, with lots of angry kooks. But it’s also a place where reasonable dissenting voices have found a way to get their ideas heard. It’s a mixed bag.

As it should be. If it's not a mixed bag, you're in an echo-chamber. That's why I hang out here on HN with my fellow crazies who can separate ideas, thoughts and knowledge from the person.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#115

Post by WarmWash »

cgriswald wrote: post #109
WarmWash wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its an intractable problem because people now have a general expectation that everything is "free". Look at Kagi's success and compare it to Google. It doesn't even register. People need to start paying for things, because if you're not paying for it, you're not in control of it.

People pay for things and are still spied on.

People wear seatbelts and still die too.

We need to move in the right direction, not get paralysis in the status quo because of high profile edge cases.

No matter what there will always be warrants and wire taps. The goal is to get away from the "free flow" of information.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#116

Post by [deleted] »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #88
m348e912 wrote: post #72

I know Ring is getting a bad rap for enabling state level surveillance, but the Ring app offers an option to enable end-to-end encryption between the camera and your phone. The stored video is encrypted with key generated on your phone. You have to be physically close to the camera in order to share the key and complete the set-up. Once encrypted, the video can't be analyzed by AI or used in a broad surveillance effo…

When national interests require that, it can get a firmware update which sends a copy of data to comrades in U.S. Ministerium für Staatssicherheit even before that e2e encrypted copy reaches your phone.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#117

Post by intended »

WarmWash wrote: post #58
wordsunite wrote: post #32

I know it seems hard, but just stop using Google, Amazon, Meta products. Tell everyone you know to stop using their products. They have all been acquiring and amassing surveillance for years through their products and now they're just double dipping with AI training to sell you more of it. The more you can get people to realize and disconnect the better. I wish more people would use AI to build alternatives with a cl…

Its an intractable problem because people now have a general expectation that everything is "free". Look at Kagi's success and compare it to Google. It doesn't even register. People need to start paying for things, because if you're not paying for it, you're not in control of it.

We could

- regulate the crap out of surveillance capitalism.

- enforce laws on the books

- Break up firms

Tech used to have a leg to stand on in the face of government over reach. Today, tech firms have largely adapted to the incentives that actually make themselves known every quarter.

Customer support, content moderation, compliance are avoided, and lobbying argues that if you dont let tech it easy, your economy wont innovate. Except enshittification is the term to describe how extractive mature tech markets become.

I am all for more subscription models, but this shouldn’t come at the cost of throwing our hands up and ignoring the many changes that can better align the current incentives.

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#118

Post by [deleted] »

harimau777 wrote: post #61
wordsunite wrote: post #32

I know it seems hard, but just stop using Google, Amazon, Meta products. Tell everyone you know to stop using their products. They have all been acquiring and amassing surveillance for years through their products and now they're just double dipping with AI training to sell you more of it. The more you can get people to realize and disconnect the better. I wish more people would use AI to build alternatives with a cl…

I'm not sure its necessarily that simple. For example, because of the job market for software engineers I have moved to new cities multiple times during my adult life. As a result, my social network is highly fragmented and without Facebook it would be incredibly difficult for me to manage. So for me "stop using Facebook" sound similar to saying "burn all of your family photos and throw away your ability to talk to m…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#119

Post by danaris »

WarmWash wrote: post #58
wordsunite wrote: post #32

I know it seems hard, but just stop using Google, Amazon, Meta products. Tell everyone you know to stop using their products. They have all been acquiring and amassing surveillance for years through their products and now they're just double dipping with AI training to sell you more of it. The more you can get people to realize and disconnect the better. I wish more people would use AI to build alternatives with a cl…

Its an intractable problem because people now have a general expectation that everything is "free". Look at Kagi's success and compare it to Google. It doesn't even register. People need to start paying for things, because if you're not paying for it, you're not in control of it.

And the problem with that is, all the money has been siphoned off by the people at the top.

That's one of the big hidden factors driving the ad/surveillance economy: people's purchasing power just isn't what it used to be, while at the same time they're expected to be paying regularly for more things than ever before (home broadband, mobile phone plans, etc).

Re: Amazon's Ring and Google's Nest reveal the severity of U.S. surveillance state

#120

Post by ambicapter »

embedding-shape wrote: post #108
Schiendelman wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple isn't on the evil list, aside from the kowtowing every powerful leader must do not to have their business attacked.

> Apple isn't on the evil list Yeah, Tim Apple handing over a 24-karat gold plaque to the sitting president is completely normal behavior for CEOs to engage in, and not at all about just making as much money as possible. He had to do that, otherwise Apple as a company would disappear tomorrow. They're just trying to survive.

Unless you're going to demonstrate that handing over a golden plaque implies handing over privacy data to government agencies, I'm going to prefer the former over the latter.
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