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Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

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Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to elaborate?

As an American, I can freely oppose the current regime. I routinely say, both online and in real life under my government name, that Donald Trump and his cronies are criminals, that everyone should work hard to stop them from achieving their goals and ideally they should all get life sentences once we throw them out of office. I’ll never face legal or even professional consequences for saying this, and even within th…

Buddy what article do you think you are currently commenting on?

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#112
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"secretly sharing notification data" (ie. asking for records kept in the usual course of business[1]) is not the same as "forcing companies to add backdoors in secret" [1] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/28/1732

Thinking something is "unprecedented" is not an argument against it happening. Apple has surprised us before, I see no reason to expect ADP is any different.

>Apple has surprised us before

It really isn't. The reason I used the specific wording for "records kept in the usual course of business" is that's the legal standard for subpoenable information. It shouldn't be surprising to any legal expert that it was fair game for the government to request. The only thing surprising is that we didn't know it specifically happened before, so it's only as "surprising" as chatgpt logs being subpoenaed. Yes, it's "surprising" for the people using chatgpt as their therapist and think it should have been protected, but ask any lawyer and they'll all agree it's fair game. On the other hand forcing apple to specifically insert a backdoor runs into all sorts of constitution/due process issues.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#113
post #5

All the tech ceos are on the trump train this time around, it was a specific strategy of the trump campaign. Using words like “caved” as though they were pressured and not already aligned with the government is a disservice.

I think that moment happened when Trump said, "drop to your knees and beg, and he would have done it,” to Elon. [1]. Once Trump assumed the presidency, it was game over for tech.

[1] https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#114
post #9

The Censorship-Industrial Complex is troubling no matter which party benefits.

Center/right voter here. I agree.

Add to the list of grievances social media platforms that include bot farms and organized political operatives. Also political activist celebrities.

All of these diminish the one person / one vote / one voice ideal.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#115

> Unless there’s proof of incitement to violence or a true threat, such expression is protected. AFAIK the bar is even higher - incitement to violence is allowed, as long as it's not 'imminent': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action

The bar in the US right now seems to be if someone with any authority feels like killing you.

[flagged]

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#116
post #79
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One Trump tweet can destroy a company’s stock price. Trump has amazing power over public companies as the absolute king of the attention economy.

I wish I understood how that works. Retail investors are so small, compared with hedge funds and whatnot, that "average people" cannot move a stock price significantly. So, when Trump tweets about a company, how does the stock move? Who is actually doing all that selling to drive the price down? And, since the price almost always recovers within a week... does it even matter?

Trump has big money friends that control non-retail investment. The tweet is just signalling.

That kind of access and "control" is why they think they can just tweet at Coke to stop using artificial dyes instead of, you know, changing the rules at the organization they run.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#117
post #69
post #3

I thought Republicans were for small government and were anti-censorship.

It's not hard to find similar dunks for the other side, eg. "I thought Democrats were for bodily autonomy" (with regards to vaccine mandates/passports) or "I thought liberals were for free speech" (with regards to cancel culture).

No side is perfect, but contrary to popular misconception, Democrats/liberals have generally been much better when it comes to restrictions on state power and support for civil liberties.

Until the COVID-conspiracism came around, vaccine mandates had been supported by a massive bi-partisan consensus - for decades - because they make sense. Just take a look at this article on The Federalist of all places, from 2015: https://thefederalist.com/2015/02/03/the-insane-vaccine-deba...

> Fundamentally, the protection against life-threatening plague is one of the original reasons government exists. We’ve had mandatory vaccines for schoolchildren in America since before the Emancipation Proclamation. The Supreme Court has upheld that practice as constitutional for over a century, and only the political fringes believe there ought to be a debate about such matters. This is one of the few areas where government necessarily exercises power.

> You shouldn’t be compelled to vaccinate your child, but neither should the rest of us be compelled to pretend like you did.

> It’s the failure to deal with those consequences that frustrates me about this debate. If you choose to not vaccinate your children, that is your choice. In the absence of an immediate threat, such as a life-threatening plague or outbreak, the state doesn’t have a compelling reason to administer that vaccination by force or to infringe on your rights. But that doesn’t mean there are no tradeoffs for such a decision. If you choose not to vaccinate, private and public institutions should be able to discriminate on that basis.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#118
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know what they are doing. To survive as a large entity during this administration you have to kiss the ring. If you don't, you'll get targeted for being 'woke' or whatever. In fact, kissing Trump's ass is more important for success than actually making a good product at this point. I definitely don't think what these CEOs are doing is moral, but it's certainly rational.

Kissing up to the bully just means they come back to extort you for more the next time. I don't think it's even rational behavior.

The shareholders don’t care. Yet another example in the long list of late stage capitalism problems.

The only thing these executives are allowed to care about is money & profit. If Trump is able to unilaterally threaten those profits (via tariffs or other regulations), obviously the executives have to respond to that.

Plus, Trump has proven to be extremely receptive to farcical “bribes” — just look at the “FIFA peace prize.” It doesn’t take much to placate his ego.

So the rational, easy path through for the executives is to get with the program and play nice with Trump.

Are they spineless cowards? Sure, but since when does capitalism and shareholders incentivize anything else?

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#119
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know what they are doing. To survive as a large entity during this administration you have to kiss the ring. If you don't, you'll get targeted for being 'woke' or whatever. In fact, kissing Trump's ass is more important for success than actually making a good product at this point. I definitely don't think what these CEOs are doing is moral, but it's certainly rational.

This is unacceptable behavior, and terrible that anyone would think this way. You're telling me that if Tim Cook wasn't getting on his knees every couple of weeks Apple would end? That's farcical.

Is it? You think if Tim Cook took a stand and said no to Trump there wouldn’t all of a sudden be a rush of new tarriffs/lawsuits? I’m not so sure.

Re: Platforms bend over backward to help DHS censor ICE critics, advocates say

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They know what they are doing. To survive as a large entity during this administration you have to kiss the ring. If you don't, you'll get targeted for being 'woke' or whatever. In fact, kissing Trump's ass is more important for success than actually making a good product at this point. I definitely don't think what these CEOs are doing is moral, but it's certainly rational.

No, the matter of fact is that Apple would survive no matter what. But would they (the people involved, not the company, Cook & other executives) make as much money if they went against the administration compared to how much they could make while playing along? Also no, and is why you're seeing people bowing down, they personally make much more money then.

Survive was probably too strong a word. But I stand by my point that, right now, business success is closely tied to how much Trump likes you.
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