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Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

nytimes.com

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Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#111

Post by gizmondo »

api wrote: post #79
outside1234 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what you are saying is that these places have not built enough housing. That sounds like the actual problem, not the population size.

“We will do literally anything to make housing more affordable except build more of it.” Forget where I first saw that but it’s absolutely true. The left will try rent control, subsidies, taxes and prohibitions against speculation, banning AirBnB, etc. The right will try mass deportations and population caps. Nobody will build more housing because that would work, and home owners are incentivized not to do anything t…

In Switzerland most people rent, in Zurich/Geneva it's more than 80% of inhabitants, doesn't help one bit. I kid you not, we have the renter association that is working tirelessly to prevent new construction.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#112

Post by happytoexplain »

locallost wrote: post #96
hmokiguess wrote: post #39

I support that. If you tried doing the inverse, for example, migrate to an Islamic country and bring over Christianity there, you would not be welcomed at all. I’m an expat and one thing I’ve learned is to integrate myself with the culture of the country that adopted me, I believe this shows respect and that I am aligned with its values and principles.

This is the trap that the western world has set up for itself. You cannot destroy countries on the grounds that your society is better and that it's worth the destruction to make them be like yourself, and then at the same time say forget about it when it's time to actually be better and more tolerant.

Ignoring the "two wrongs make a right" fallacy (AKA "hypocrisy is the worst sin"), it doesn't even seem to follow. Wouldn't imposing your culture on less developed nations and also rejecting those cultures from your own nation be consistent behavior?

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#113

Post by happytoexplain »

thrance wrote: post #110
krthat1 wrote: post #4

"Anti foreigner sentiment"? Dear NYT, try to find an apartment in the EU or Switzerland. At best, you will get a furnished (to circumvent rent caps), overpriced 30 square meter dump that takes up 40% of your net salary. Once that problem is solved, we can talk about "sentiments".

Sure, apartments in Paris are overpriced because of immigrants buying them all. Fuck, that is so stupid. The same people parroting this anti-foreigners hate are also completely indifferent to slumlords profiteering on housing, and will support politicians who consistently side with landlords and homeowners over tenants and first buyers. Housing has never become more affordable under a right wing government .

This is a particularly egregious case of the "same people" fallacy.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#115

Post by happytoexplain »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #99
rendang wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I support YIMBYism for ones own countrymen but I don't see the need to fit as many people as possible in your country. A Switzerland with 25 million people will be a worse place to live regardless of whether the housing supply keeps up

Only the market can decide what's better or worse. Revealed preference is truer than words.

Using the market as a revealed preference indicator is a disaster. There are too many perverse incentives and indirect causes-and-effects. It's like the scene in Battlefield Earth where they decide a human's favorite food is rat by observation.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#116

Post by thrance »

happytoexplain wrote: post #113
thrance wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, apartments in Paris are overpriced because of immigrants buying them all. Fuck, that is so stupid. The same people parroting this anti-foreigners hate are also completely indifferent to slumlords profiteering on housing, and will support politicians who consistently side with landlords and homeowners over tenants and first buyers. Housing has never become more affordable under a right wing government .

This is a particularly egregious case of the "same people" fallacy.

Explain how. All the anti-immigration guys I've ever met were right-wingers. And we know the right's position on housing: never do anything that would devalue housing, never anger homeowners, always side with landlords, etc.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#117

Post by frumplestlatz »

hypeatei wrote: post #12
alephnerd wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe work on changing zoning laws instead of pandering to farmers and rural cantons?

It's much easier to blame the out group for your issues. The US currently has a sizable percentage of people that believe ICE deportations are going to lower housing prices, for example.

Does supply and demand apply or not? Building houses increases supply. Deportations reduce demand.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#118

Post by frumplestlatz »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #32
toomuchtodo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Citizens can choose to prioritize quality of life over maximizing housing stock to increase the domestic population. “We’re all full up.” It is their country after all, it is their choice. Those who want in are not stakeholders nor have a vote.

It's amazing how quickly globalists were able to get the ideological left to switch from having riots protesting against globalism to declaring it racist to have any anti-globalist thoughts. Even more amazing are the intellectual knots they'll tie themselves up into when explaining how this came to be. The participants of the Battle of Seattle in 1999 now would be considered Nazis.

> The participants of the Battle of Seattle in 1999 now would be considered Nazis.

Given that I participated in that back in 99, and have been called a Nazi three times over the past two weeks for anodyne views, you’re literally not wrong.

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#119

Post by thrance »

rdm_blackhole wrote: post #107
rimbo789 wrote: post #42

Typical right wing popularism to divide people and ignore the fact they have no actual solutions. Racism is bad people. This will hurt people living in Switzerland today and those who end up there in the future.

Why always bringing back everything to racism? The people of Switzerland want to maintain the look an feel of their country as it is. How is racism the first thing you think of when no one mentionned race?

Because it is motivated by racism, and you can't pretend otherwise. This is pure slopulism.

https://www.reddit.com/r/PropagandaPosters/comments/1awmq1a/...

Re: Switzerland to vote on capping population at 10M

#120

Post by api »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #101
api wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We will do literally anything to make housing more affordable except build more of it.” Forget where I first saw that but it’s absolutely true. The left will try rent control, subsidies, taxes and prohibitions against speculation, banning AirBnB, etc. The right will try mass deportations and population caps. Nobody will build more housing because that would work, and home owners are incentivized not to do anything t…

How? I can't seem to affect any control the factors that constraint housing. I want to build more, but short of becoming a developer myself, I'm powerless. Even if I were a developer, I'd likely be subject to the same structural forces.

The main impediments are density limits, zoning, onerous permitting requirements, lawsuits from NIMBY groups to block everything, and so on.

The entire developed world is basically a big housing cartel where existing home owners work to limit supply to keep the price high.

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