I spent a lot of time on philosophy and religion when I was younger, a lot of time, focus and money, and man... I read these posts and feel sad for these people and it makes me realize now as an older guy how much more I value learning how to skateboard or run a committee, or write code, run a business or any time I spent on investigating the real world. Life is short, these people are getting emotionally nerd sniped…
I honestly can't tell if you're trying to insult the engineer who wrote this post or the non-engineers that are in love with ChatGPT-4o
Yeah I'm just not convinced the ones in the movie are any more complex than our current ones, just more well harnessed, pun intended, as the harness and tooling around the LLM dictates a lot of its abilities, for example [0]. I don't believe the ones in the movie have any actual form of consciousness as humans would understand it. And as far as (simulacra of) internal models, seems like LLMs have that today too, as a…
It’s obvious from the subtext and the point that the movie is trying to make. The metaphor is that sometimes you fall in love with someone who outgrows you. I believe they even originally had a more “robotic” voice actor but changed it to Scarlett in order to make it crystal clear that she is as sentient as, if not more so, than Theodore is.
Sure, it's a movie so it's going to use human voice actors and have an actual story and point, but my point was more on the technological side, that the bots in the movie aren't much different than what we have today and we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be.
It’s obvious from the subtext and the point that the movie is trying to make. The metaphor is that sometimes you fall in love with someone who outgrows you. I believe they even originally had a more “robotic” voice actor but changed it to Scarlett in order to make it crystal clear that she is as sentient as, if not more so, than Theodore is.
Sure, it's a movie so it's going to use human voice actors and have an actual story and point, but my point was more on the technological side, that the bots in the movie aren't much different than what we have today and we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be.
> we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be
They (modern LLM's/agents) don't "seem to be" from my point of view. I respectfully disagree I suppose.
edit: One data point - https://www.twitch.tv/claudeplayspokemon . Claude has been failing to to beat pokemon, a game effectively made for children, for _months_ now.
Sure, it's a movie so it's going to use human voice actors and have an actual story and point, but my point was more on the technological side, that the bots in the movie aren't much different than what we have today and we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be.
> we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be They (modern LLM's/agents) don't "seem to be" from my point of view. I respectfully disagree I suppose. edit: One data point - https://www.twitch.tv/claudeplayspokemon . Claude has been failing to to beat pokemon, a game effectively made for children, for _months_ now.
My reference to "they" was to the bots in the movie, not the real life ones we have today, which I agree don't seem to have consciousness. My point of contention is that the ones in the movie don't either, they just appear to have it (for theatrical effect, but analyzed philosophically and technologically, I don't think so), and that's where we probably disagree.
How is this specific to 4o? This can happen with any model. See how people acted after Character.AI essentially removed their AI "partners" after a server reset. They actually used DeepSeek before which didn't have the same limitations as American models, especially being open weight means you can fine tune it to be as lovey dovey as your heart desires.
People are not happy with this because 4o, at least from what I've heard, seems to be much more willing to go down the relationship/friend path than 5.2 and Claude and the like.
I wonder to what extent 4/4o is the culprit, vs it simply being the default model when many of these people were forming their "relationships."
It's not that complicated. 4o was RLHF'd to be sycophantic as hell, which was fine until some one had their psychotic episode fueled by it and so they changed it with the next model.
Not just someone, many, many people, going by the feedback on Reddit. People are mourning the damn thing.
> we in fact cannot know if they're conscious or not, even if they seem to be They (modern LLM's/agents) don't "seem to be" from my point of view. I respectfully disagree I suppose. edit: One data point - https://www.twitch.tv/claudeplayspokemon . Claude has been failing to to beat pokemon, a game effectively made for children, for _months_ now.
My reference to "they" was to the bots in the movie, not the real life ones we have today, which I agree don't seem to have consciousness. My point of contention is that the ones in the movie don't either, they just appear to have it (for theatrical effect, but analyzed philosophically and technologically, I don't think so), and that's where we probably disagree.
> for theatrical effect, but analyzed philosophically and technologically
If theatrical effect basically means "the intent of the production of the film", then they don't merely appear to do have sentience - they _do_ in the context of the filmmakers' vision. Whether you think it was plausible or not is sort of a different discussion I feel.
At any rate, I found Samantha to be a highly plausible ASI or whatever you want to call it. Johanson's performance really sold it for me.
Computing has made intimate sexual relationships worse. Dating apps are skewed: men receive little attention while women have an overwhelming amount of attention. Porn satisfies our most base sexual functions while abandoning truly intimate connections. The ultimate goal of sexual unions has been demonized and turned into something to avoid. That being children. After school specials since the 80s have made pregnancy…
> After school specials since the 80s have made pregnancy a horror to avoid instead of a joy to grasp. I don't draw the same conclusion. I think they've made teen pregnancy a horror to avoid, which is totally fair.
The more complete version of this line of reasoning is (which I've seen more than once, but no links to hand, sorry) is:
After solidly internalizing the messaging of "teen pregnancy is the worst thing ever" & "sex leads to teen pregnancy", there's no "switch" to make those thought patterns disappear without a trace at the point at which it's "ok" (by whatever metric is relevant to the individual) to participate in sex, child-rearing, etc. So individuals find themselves dealing with long-term guilt at having sex and/or aversion to having children, neither of which is "rational" according to their values but which nonetheless is real and affects their behavior.