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Discord just killed anonymity

michael-dev-tech.github.io

111–120 of 157 posts

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

never, ever is quite strong wording when you're in an arms race with 14 year olds who want to gain illicit access to something digital. I know everyone's a digital native these days and real life isn't a 90s hacker movie, but 'rarely' already seems like a pretty high bar given how ingenious a 14 year old deprived of their preferred entertainment can get.

if your goal and reasoning is child safety this is a big issue that it can even happen. my point is these tools are unreliable. It is using a problem that cannot be fixed as justification for a big privacy invasion. I was 14 once too, that’s how I got into what I do now.

Not to mention it introduces different threats to safety when additional personal information of yours is made available to an entity you cannot audit in an industry famous for redefining privacy to mean "your data or derivatives of your data can be infinitely shared and sold and resold with little-to-no consequence".

It introduces the threat of being personally unmasked to anyone and everyone is introduced in the event the verification system (or a component thereof containing your personal info) is hacked and data dumped to the public.

It introduces the threat of your data being sold around with the "ground truth" of your identity and photo associated with it.

And even if these threats aren't realized....it happens often enough with related companies that the uncertainty will forever be there.

The threat of public humiliation.

The threat of losing your job.

The threat of losing your social connections.

The threat of personal assault.

All of these come to mind as concrete threats that have played out when someone has been doxed by a malicious person.

And now the risk and consequence of doxing is made so much worse when your government ID is associated with chats that are ostensibly private.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if your goal and reasoning is child safety this is a big issue that it can even happen. my point is these tools are unreliable. It is using a problem that cannot be fixed as justification for a big privacy invasion. I was 14 once too, that’s how I got into what I do now.

Not to mention it introduces different threats to safety when additional personal information of yours is made available to an entity you cannot audit in an industry famous for redefining privacy to mean "your data or derivatives of your data can be infinitely shared and sold and resold with little-to-no consequence". It introduces the threat of being personally unmasked to anyone and everyone is introduced in the ev…

I’ve mentioned before publicly I got randomly shadowbanned before on linkedin with these invasive “security” checks for no reason. It ended up costing me money because I mostly at that time used that network to actually network and looked for consulting opportunities. and to this day i have no real way to know what they know about me or how they’re using the facial data i did provide. There was nothing from my pov that should have been flagged, but due to the unreliable way they flag users and the invasive id verification checks (that dont work) involved, I had to self opt out of the platform, which is really stupid to me given the fact i was a pro paying user for 10+ years. and all these platforms have the capability to easily do that. whether its triggered by something benign or malicious is irrelevant - the tech simply doesnt work. the people that control how it works have questionable motives. So i must then ask the question, why? you are getting at the reason I think.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#114
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discord says they'll use some AI garbage tool. Those are prone to mistakes over a large enough userbase. It will not be a rare occurrence for an adult to be labelled a child until they debase themselves with a scan of their face or a copy of their government ID. For children - this mandate also still makes the decision on behalf of the parents that a child must submit a scan of their face to a third party. Moving to…

I don't love what discord is doing, but where are you getting the idea that discord is going to estimate the user's age using "some AI garbage tool"? The article says everyone is on "child" mode by default, and verification is only required if you need to use the features / access content marked as adult only.

One aspect is already implemented, you open your webcame and it uses an AI tool to figure out if you are of age.

This is obviously ineffective but I must admit it's a bit of a boon for privacy enthusiasts as you can pretty easily fake the webcam using a game engine. Presumably someone will make a purpose built tool.

As well, if you aren't going to subvert it, and are willing to tie your identity to the discord account, it is still better than submitting government IDs.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#115
post #6

Discord has always had dark patterns which basically ban anonymity. If you aren't fingerprintable enough (using VPN, etc) they will force you to enter a phone number. They also encourage guild admins to require it, although it is technically a choice.

Phone text checks only stop people who don't know they can be easily bypassed anonymously

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#116
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet people are en-mass switching from discord. Anonymity on the internet is important for a lot of reasons and is part of why it’s good. If hacker news required an ID to access who’s hiring and ask HN threads, people would move off. Communities aren’t about the “platform features” they’re about the environment. As for profit CEO after CEO fail to recognize time after time

> Yet people are en-mass switching from discord. Some people are, but I would bet money on it being a very small number of people who switch platforms. The HN bubble is not representative of the average user. This is similar to when HN thought Reddit's userbase was going to shrink after the API changes (it didn't) or when the internet thought Netflix was going to lose subscribers when they cracked down on account sha…

> This is similar to when HN thought Reddit's userbase was going to shrink after the API changes (it didn't) or when the internet thought Netflix was going to lose subscribers when they cracked down on account sharing (they grew, not shrank).

I don't think these are the wins you think they are.

The average user simply doesn't know any better, and likely isn't even aware of the API changes Reddit made. The user base didn't grow because of those changes: it's just no one cared. As more people come onto Reddit post-API-changes, their perception of normal differs from ours "who remember the good old days." The platform is growing because it's the central point at which everyone is gathering; the network effect is massive... that's not good, mate. That's the perfect platform to target with your political ads, designed to sway entire populations to your way of thinking.

Netflix cracking down and seeing growth on the platform was a win... for DRM. For publishers, producers, and studios. No one else won there, bro. The consumer was just forced to pay, that's all. Netflix won.

All that's really happening is the companies are finding ways of extracting more wealth from those out there who want to us their products and services. And I guess that's fine - that's the system we're in now - but it's not the "ha gottem!!" argument you think it is... it's actually more of a self-own, because you, me, and the other guy all got owned, son.

It's time to wake up, Mr Anderson: convenience at the scale of Reddit, Netflix, Discord, and more, can be a force for good, but it's not going to be. It's going to be a force for profits.

These are _bad_ services that aren't healthy. They keep you always connected; always on; and always drinking from the firehose.

And that's why we need slower, simpler offerings.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#117
post #9

I’m going to do a video on this soon, but I was able to get Ergo IRCd and TheLounge up and running pretty quickly; https://chat.crilly.au/ I’ll be building a new platform on these two technologies and using Zoom or something else like Jitsi on the side for video/audio sharing. It’s time accept the loss of “features” and go back to something simpler but also something that can still be here in 38 years — like IRC has…

> It’s time accept the loss of “features” and go back to something simpler I guess I have a hard time understanding these calls to switch to a platform that has even fewer features than the unverified Discord accounts. The blog post is incorrect in claiming that verification will be mandatory. It will only be necessary to access certain features and content. For simple IRC-style chats or even for voice chats with gam…

> The blog post is incorrect in claiming that verification will be mandatory. It will only be necessary to access certain features and content.

I think it's the writing on the wall that's important here, mate. This is only the first step.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#118
post #33
post #9

I’m going to do a video on this soon, but I was able to get Ergo IRCd and TheLounge up and running pretty quickly; https://chat.crilly.au/ I’ll be building a new platform on these two technologies and using Zoom or something else like Jitsi on the side for video/audio sharing. It’s time accept the loss of “features” and go back to something simpler but also something that can still be here in 38 years — like IRC has…

It's time to accept that 99% of people will not accept the loss of "features" (not sure why that's in quotes) or move to something objectively inferior for their needs i.e. something that requires more knowledge instead of simply opening an app where everything is ready to use. Coming from a former heavy IRC user who's not going back except for nostalgia trips.

I'll happily set up a platform and be friends with the other 1% - that's 60,000,000 people.

I'm sure I'll be fine.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#119
post #9

I’m going to do a video on this soon, but I was able to get Ergo IRCd and TheLounge up and running pretty quickly; https://chat.crilly.au/ I’ll be building a new platform on these two technologies and using Zoom or something else like Jitsi on the side for video/audio sharing. It’s time accept the loss of “features” and go back to something simpler but also something that can still be here in 38 years — like IRC has…

Only a small handful of people will do something like that. For most people, losing people is a nonstarter

I'm happy to let people go. They're adults (or are they... gasp! Now I get it) so they'll be fine and so will I.

Re: Discord just killed anonymity

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Things like [...] are now considered table stakes. One other feature that's absolutely considered table stakes now is persistent server-side history, with the ability to edit and delete messages. Modern chat services are less like IRC, and more like a web forum with live updates. (Yes, you can poorly emulate server-side history on IRC with a bouncer. That's not enough, and it's a pain for users to set up.)

>One other feature that's absolutely considered table stakes now is persistent server-side history, with the ability to edit and delete messages. Indeed. Ergo offers server-side history but I'm not sure it supports edit/delete yet.

> Ergo offers server-side history but I'm not sure it supports edit/delete yet.

I don't think it does, no. I've only just started using it, though.

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