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Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

techoversight.org

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Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's realistic is forcing them to behave by issuing fines that make such behavior prohibitively expensive. Europeans have been saying that for what, 20 years now? How long does it have to not work before we stop saying that it's a realistic solution?

There were no serious attempts at enforcing the rules.

If that's so, then is it realistic to expect that to somehow change? These corps have been fined more times than I can count, but it's clearly not working.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#112
This is just normal par-for-the-course business chasing an expanding market. Entertainment companies, in particular, _always_ focus on the youth market. When I was a teenager, record companies were obsessed with what teenagers liked: that's just the nature of the business. Headline is deliberately misleading. The (few) references in here to "addiction" are negative; suggesting ways to reach the youth market _without_ risking addictive behavior.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#113

I fully expect this to get ignored like all the other similar revelations. Heads should roll, literally, but nothing will happen. Does anybody have any earnest hope for reform? Even in Europe where the public is supposedly keyed in, and where there is some political traction for getting away from American companies, nobody seems to take the idea of banning these corporations seriously.

how would you ban it? I don't want the russian-style ban enforced by ISPs Probably punishing companies who pay YouTube for ads would work

Much if not all of Europe already has ISP level bans. If they can use those bans against football streaming sites, why not Facebook?

And actually I think just banning them from conducting any business, accepting payments/etc, would be mostly sufficient. They could continue to operate at a loss, but it would put American corps at such a disadvantage that domestic social media might be able to compete, and enforcing regulations against domestic companies should be far more feasible.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#114
By now I reached a point where I don't believe that big tech companies will do anything to improve outcomes for user if it will have a hit on their bottom line, and I'm sure that opposite is true, they will do anything to improve their bottom line even if it hurts the user. So it's fair to say that this relationship can't work in long term.

I'm not really on the platforms mentioned except of YouTube, and it's considered to be the lesser offender here but still I can't avoid seeing how bad it got.

I remember 2007-2012 the platform was mostly for entertainment, silly cat videos pranks, a low budget documentary here and there. 2012-2015 felt like the period where YouTube became a platform for more useful things, people showing how they are fixing cars, professors uploading their recorded classes, history channels, but on the sidelines people were starting to make money off doing weird things, like unboxing stuff on camera, drop testing phones, etc.

If you were told in early 2000's that people will be getting extremely rich by unpackaging products on camera, you would have been called insane, no one would have considered wasting their free time watching things like that. It might be more difficult to convince older folks to engage but younger generation was malleable and was easy to hook, and slowly it became normal.

2015 to present days became a period where it's completely normal to make user to watch the ad disguised as content. People testing/showcasing/unboxing products or even political ideology propaganda presented as discussion in form of a podcast.

It's obvious that the quality what is offered on YouTube has gotten worse, but they can counter it with autoplay, infinite scroll, landing page filled with eye grabbing content. The only way to watch things on YouTube and not be effected by this nonsense is to use a different client (freetube, jaybird, newpipe, there are plenty more). You can define of your homepage will look like, weather you want to see shorts or not, infinite feed, suggestion etc.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know Doom Eternal had one, I believe she was even credited. But the line between "making a game more fun" and "making a game addictive" is a little blurry.

Addictive in this case you mean could be out of spite? Like, I don't like this but it's pissing me off and by god I will beat it?

I found the gameplay loop really fun, but the rest of it was definitely not up to the standard of Doom 2016.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but communication is fundamental to the human experience. Humans survived well before the internet, the telephone, the telegraph, or even international post.

In those days they did this by having physical public spaces for interaction, which we've since priced people out of through artificial scarcity of real estate via zoning laws. And even if people were willing to solve that one, it would take time to actually build new buildings, and doing that would have to be done first . It's also assuming that we're willing to abandon a technological capacity (not having to person…

> In those days they did this by having physical public spaces for interaction, which we've since priced people out of through artificial scarcity of real estate via zoning laws.

IDK where to begin with this, because we clearly do have physical public spaces for interaction, whether free like parks or not free like coffee shops. People also hang out at each others' homes. Moreover, supply of public spaces increases when there's demand, much of which is being soaked up by social media.

You're also acting like we can't meaningfully distinguish between social media and other forms of communication and that we have to be all or nothing about it, which is a bewildering take. Even social media can be meaningfully distinguished in terms of design features. Facebook back when it was posting on friends' walls, no likes, comments, shares, friend/follower counts, or feeds, was fun and mostly harmless. LinkedIn was genuinely useful when the feed was nothing more than professional updates. They've all since morphed into toxic cesspools of social comparison, parasociality, polarization, disinformation, and other problems. Interoperability/federation doesn't solve those problems: most of the interoperable and federated solutions actually perpetuate them, because the problematic design features are part of the spec.

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#117
post #35

Johnny Cash - God's Gonna Cut You Down: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc

Awesome song. Gives me chills. Wish I believed in a just God like that.

you are made either of reason or of faith, but the choice what you are made of you can not make nor with reason nor with faith

reason can not choose reason, and faith can not choose faith

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#118

I feel like there are some key differences between the companies though. The second one outlined for Meta is: > Heavily-redacted undated internal document discussing “School Blasts” as a strategy for gaining more high school users (mass notifications sent during the school day). This sounds a lot like Meta being intentionally disruptive. The first one outlined for YouTube is: > Slidedeck on the role that YouTube’s au…

>This sounds like YouTube taking actual steps to improve the situation.

Maybe if they actually did any of those things...

Re: Unsealed court documents show teen addiction was big tech's "top priority"

#119
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like saying parents are at fault when a gun salesman enters their home every day, talks for hours with their children, and sells them weapons. Have these parents tried to not let the salesman in?

The salesman is at their friends place. And is a prerequisite for soccer team meetups. Etc. You need most parents to cooperate to bar him... but yeah I guess being prudent at home helps.

I totally understand that "the salesman" is everywhere and that a single person can't fight against that, but he is everywhere because most parents are not blocking him in the first place, and that's exactly my point. Those are the parents that need to be blamed.

In my first message I was not targeting those parents who try to block this but can't; I was targeting those parents that use Youtube to distract their kids since they are babies, those who give unrestricted access with no control at all, those who don't care. We all know people like that.

This is just an hypothesis, but if parents were fined every time their kid accessed social media, I'm sure most kids wouldn't be on it.

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