Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

wpr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 383 posts

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#111

Post by snarf21 »

simianwords wrote: post #59
janice1999 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do data centers in space actually make sense? No. It's currently a fantasy. Even if the cost of getting payloads to orbit decreased another x100, you still have the issues of radiation and heat dissipation.

this will age poorly. you have both Google, Tesla/X betting on it. They are not stupid and probably have given it way more thought than people's whose paycheques not tied to this have thought about. This is an ambitious bet, with some possibility of failure but it should say a lot that these companies are investing in them. I wonder what people think, are these companies so naive? Edit: Elon, Sundar, Jensen, Jeff are…

Serious question: If you are so sure that this is a big payday, have you put all your net worth into SpaceX? Seems like a no brainer if you fully believe it.

The reason for this "data centers in space" is the same as the "sustained human colony on Mars". It is all pie in the sky ideas to drive valuation and increase Musk's wealth.

Just a small sampling of previous failed Musk promises: - demonstration drive of full autonomy all the way from LA to New York by the end of 2017 - "autonomous ride hailing in probably half the population of the U.S. by the end of the year" - “thousands” of Optimus humanoid robots working in Tesla factories by the end of 2025." - Tesla semi trucks rollout (Pepsi paid for 100 semis in 2017, and deliveries started in 2022, and now 8 years later they have received half of them.)

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#112

Post by fouc »

MattSteelblade wrote: post #63
timmg wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do data centers in space actually make sense? I can’t figure out how that’s possible. But some people seem to believe they do(?)

Not even a little; doesn’t pass napkin math. It doesn’t solve any problems while adding a litany of new ones: massive radiators for heat rejection, radiation hardening, and enormous launch + repair costs (assuming repairs are even possible). The idea exists to separate investors from their money; the product is the funding round.

there's no repair involved. imagine a series of throwaway satellites on an orbit that essentially leaves them close enough together for effective mesh networking, and probably on an orbit that slowly takes them away from earth.

the compute is used for training, not inference. the redundancy and mesh networking means that if any of them die, it is no big deal.

and an orbit that takes them away from earth means they avoid cluttering up earth's orbital field.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#113

Post by simianwords »

snarf21 wrote: post #111
simianwords wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this will age poorly. you have both Google, Tesla/X betting on it. They are not stupid and probably have given it way more thought than people's whose paycheques not tied to this have thought about. This is an ambitious bet, with some possibility of failure but it should say a lot that these companies are investing in them. I wonder what people think, are these companies so naive? Edit: Elon, Sundar, Jensen, Jeff are…

Serious question: If you are so sure that this is a big payday, have you put all your net worth into SpaceX? Seems like a no brainer if you fully believe it. The reason for this "data centers in space" is the same as the "sustained human colony on Mars". It is all pie in the sky ideas to drive valuation and increase Musk's wealth. Just a small sampling of previous failed Musk promises: - demonstration drive of full a…

I have put as much money as I believe in it (risk adjusted). And same goes for Google, Spacex, Blue Origin and other companies.

This trope

> It is all pie in the sky ideas to drive valuation and increase Musk's wealth.

Really needs to stop. This is based on a naive interpretation of how wealth gets created. Musk has an amazing reputation getting things done and making things that people like. Whether you like him as a person or not, he has done stuff in the past and that's reason enough to believe him now.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#115

Post by its_ethan »

taco_emoji wrote: post #87
drunner wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason likely here is water. It was the same with foxcon. They want access to Lake Michigan.

I have a feeling the Great Lakes Compact members will have something to say about this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Lakes_Compact

> Due to the United States Supreme Court ruling in Wisconsin v. Illinois, the State of Illinois is not subject to certain provisions of the compact pertaining to new or increased withdrawals or diversions from the Great Lakes.

I mean it seems like there's already avenues to skirt around this compact?

Also, from what I can tell, this isn't some sort of ban on using water from the Great Lakes basin, it's just a framework for how the states are to manage it. It is entirely believable to me that this compact would actually support water being used for developing tech in the surrounding communities (like using it in data centers).

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#116

Post by whizzter »

DalasNoin wrote: post #60
delichon wrote: post #18

NIMBY for data centers is opportunity for SpaceX. When they saturate the demand for communication, data processing demand will be ramping up with no apparent ceiling. The merger between SpaceX and xAI positions them to benefit both from the AI revolution, and from the resistance to it. It's like a hypothetical 19th century textile company that managed to profit from Luddite riots by using them to help move production…

Space doesn't seem like a good place to build datacenters at all. Cooling is going to be an enormous issue, how do you disperse of heat in a vaccuum? Radiators are very ineffective for cooling.

Cooling is the biggest reason for space datacenters, heat is movement of particles and vacuum being an absence of particles, so it's by definition cold.

Naturally the system needs energy, the sun giving radiation convertible to electricity should enable that.

Both parts are documented about ISS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_system_of_the_Inter...

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#117

Post by hobs »

datsci_est_2015 wrote: post #108
mistrial9 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the building of the American Railroads were the largest capital endeavor in known history IIR. .. and Stanford was in the center of that, too

Ah my bad. But also, if we’re comparing buildout of infrastructure to the construction of the American Railroad system, especially in the context of lawbreaking and general immoral and unethical behavior… Point kind of proven, yeah? One more argument for the “return to the gilded age” debates. Edit: you’re speaking kind of authoritatively on the subject though. Care to share some figures? The AI bubble is definitely…

Depends on when you stop calculating, and how you exactly value the work

By 1900 the united states had 215 thousand miles of railroads https://www.loc.gov/classroom-materials/united-states-histor...

Depend on you value land mileage and work this could easily be north of 1T modern dollars.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#118

Post by jplusequalt »

timmg wrote: post #47

I find it strange how data centers are getting (sorta) vilified. I keep hearing stories on NPR that are kinda subtle fear-mongering. Like data centers are probably the least bad thing to build nearby. They take in power and produce computer. No pollution, no traffic, no chemicals or potential explosions. They do take power. But, like, we know how to generate electricity. And solar is getting really cheap.

Data centers absolutely cause pollution.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#119

Post by cmxch »

infecto wrote: post #80
a2128 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a scary argument. Should we also ban car emissions/safety testing, because Volvo's competitors might discern something from the results? Should we also stop FCC certification because competitors might glean information out of a device's radio characteristics? The local residents, if not the public at large, should have a right to know. If not, then it should go both ways and grocery stores shouldn't be allowe…

What is always left unclear in these anti data center articles is how much the public is left in the dark? It’s not out of the normal for large developments to be kept under NDA until hitting a threshold of certainty, usually that does not mean the residents are left out of voicing their opinions before ground breaks.

What kind of say do the residents have when it’s nearly a done deal?

Unless the residents have a strong enough chance to veto, they’re just speaking into the void as far as the company is concerned.

Re: Wisconsin communities signed secrecy deals for billion-dollar data centers

#120

Post by croes »

GorbachevyChase wrote: post #109
StarterPro wrote: post #92

There is no need for this many data centers. LLMs are a scourge on humanity as they are currently implemented, and what will they do when these are no longer needed? I can't wait until OpenAI, NVIDIA and Microsoft all go belly up.

A scourge? I get some kind of valuable use from it almost every day. This criticism sounds completely out of touch.

> as they are currently implemented
Post reply on HN