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ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

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Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#111

Post by skrebbel »

KellyCriterion wrote: post #78
elric wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I interviewed with ASML a decade and a half ago and while there was plenty to complain about (eg their tens of millions of lines of absolutely unmaintainable C code) How is one exposed to tens of millions of lines of unmaintainable code during an interview?

I understood that this was what they (interviewers) complained about and he got an impression about this by hearing their stories?

Yeah I knew plenty people at ASML at the time. I wrote my comment a bit too condensed there, the interview wasn't my only exposure to the place. At the time it was very chaotic (for good and bad), the codebase was awful, there was plenty armwrestling but to my understanding it was mostly armwrestling about the tech, not about island building and the likes.

Like just as an example, they made sure that by every coffee machine there was a whiteboard for general use. The idea was that if you ran into someone at the coffee machine and got talking and suddenly got an idea together, you could immediately jot it down and geek out about it together and work it out in more detail, right there and then. No meeting to plan, no project manager to involve, just work out your idea together. That's not what you'd expect in a company with lots of managers protecting their little islands.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#112

Post by uxcolumbo »

skrebbel wrote: post #41
renewiltord wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mark Zuckerberg’s Great Manager Flattening has definitely spread down the chain to other organizations. Irrespective of the difference between organizations they hired after Meta hired and they fired in the same way as Meta after Meta fired. The children did not know that they were following the piper. The piper knew. Everyone thinks themselves unique and historic. e.g. Balenciaga will say their new logo is inspired…

I'm not convinced ASML leadership is very focused on what's going on at Meta. The organizations are incomparable, except if you zoom out so far that all you see is "big" and "tech" (plus I'd wager that the average ASML'er would chuckle at calling Meta a technology company at all).

ASML is a net positive for the world. Scientists pushing technology forward. Read about how they achieved EUV lithography, what an amazing feat.

META is a net negative for the world. Its leadership prioritizes profit over user safety (e.g. not protecting children), it allowed democracies to be undermined by boosting misinformation and social division.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#113

Post by fc417fc802 »

aurareturn wrote: post #61
BoredomIsFun wrote: post #23

My semi-tin-foil speculation: The laser research facility is in US (San Diego); Europe is on the brink of a divorce from the US; there is an expectation of scaling down.

No. US can't make these machines. Laser facility in US would suffer too.

Doesn't currently manufacture at commercial scale is not the same as can't make. I don't know what the patent situation is but I assume there are at least a few in the way.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#114

Post by zwaps »

moffkalast wrote: post #103
zwaps wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many large corporations in Europe, especially in sectors of prior consistent growth and profit, are chock full of too many managers. These are people who primarily create work for themselves and each other. I have sat in meetings about meetings for actions that, ultimately, have zero impact, in teams where managers involve outnumber people who actually execute anything three to one. It's staggering. I believe the bes…

As soon as you let some Germans into your company they will turn the bureaucracy up to 12 if allowed to, tale as old as time. It's a national culture more or less.

While you are not wrong, many of the cases I observed had managers from all over the world.

I think it's just a symptom. As a manager, you contribute nothing by yourself. You are useful if you have a useful team (ICs) with a good project. To have that, you need to defend yourself against other managers who will take this from you. If you then also want to get prompted, your task is also to vacuum in all sorts of soft power, visibility, decision rights and being-in-the-roomness. It's even efficient, in that case, to destroy efficiency with processes (under your involvement)

As an IC, you are always valuable as you can always create value.

Hence, by having enough managers, you ensure that their competition will destroy the company.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#115

Post by apexalpha »

anonymous908213 wrote: post #89
ArtTimeInvestor wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen a company that ... You have not seen Alphabet, Apple, Microsoft? Where are you looking? They all did tens of billions of share buybacks every year for many years now. Example: Alphabet has started share buybacks in 2015 and increased those every year. $70B in 2025 alone. And they are firing on all cylinders product-wise.

Has anyone in the last 10 years praised Google for anything, ever? They've been engaged in enshittification the entire time. Search is getting worse, Youtube is getting worse, Android is getting worse, Chrome is getting worse. They are indeed a hollow shell of the company that originally established themselves, but now that they have such a wide-ranging monopoly they can freely debase the value of their products to e…

When you say "worse" shareholders will say: "globally dominant in multiple platforms".

Sure Android might be worse from a pure Linux perspective, but what shareholder has ever cared about that.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#116

Post by fc417fc802 »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #57
joecool1029 wrote: post #50

Wonder if China will make some of them offers?

Possibly, but there's no-compete clauses (which are hard to enforce), plus these are mostly managers, not engineers, definitely not engineers that have the deeper knowledge of the systems. But even the knowledge on its own is enough - after all, a lot of that is in published scientific papers already. ASML works because they combined everything. China can't just build a copy of their EUV machines without also having…

> but there's no-compete clauses (which are hard to enforce)

I'm pretty sure those aren't even a consideration if you relocate to a different economic superpower.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#118

Post by retired »

joe_mamba wrote: post #96
retired wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> any forced firings they will be well taken care of under Dutch labour laws Yes. Notice period stays in tact. Transition payment is 1/3rd of a monthly wage per year worked. And then your unemployment runs for up to 24 months at 70% of your income capped at €4500. Unemployment benefits are unconditional until you find a new job.

That's pretty generous, even for EU standards. In Austria for example, unconditional unemployment is 60% of your income and only lasting for a dozen or so weeks, after which you are forced to accept any job offer thrown at you or risk having your unemployment taken away.

Unemployment benefits is something you build up during your career, not just your current employer. For each year in employment you get one month of unemployment. The limit is 24 months.

And with the current job market, someone with ASML on their resume probably isn't on the bench for more than six months.

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#119

Post by tietjens »

joe_mamba wrote: post #104
alias_neo wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Qimonda Sorry for the tangent, I haven't heard this name in over 15 years, I interviewed with them the summer before the final year of my BEng, and was offered a job in China to allegedly built a real-time voice/video communications system between what they said were their three facilities in beautiful looking part of China I can't remember the name of now. Looking through my Gmail, it was 2008 they offered my the…

Thanks for sharing. You know what's ironic about Qimonda? China bought their IP after they went under, and used it to build two domestic NAND and DRAM manufacturers that are set to become giants. Funny how China has the vision to use, finance and monetize where western governments keep failing. That's what hurts the most to see. EU says they want a strong domestic electronics industry, but with the exception of ASML,…

Can you name these two manufacturers?

Re: ASML staffing changes could result in a net reduction of around 1700 positions

#120

Post by gigatexal »

Lots of true things about do-nothing managers in this thread. There are, however, managers that help teams achieve more than they would without them. People leadership and stewardship is a soft skill that’s still important so long as we have people doing the engineering.

I’ve had some amazing managers that were engaged and did more than go to and from meetings. And I’ve had some that improved things vastly just by leaving the room.

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