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The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

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Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#111

Post by nozzlegear »

gavmor wrote: post #105
nozzlegear wrote: post #103

I used to dream about a TypeScript that targeted dotnet. These days I'm not so sure I'd use it, only because I have a tendency to get caught in the weeds "big braining" the type system to make the perfect type for every situation. F# is my happy medium for the backend.

What's missing from C#?

If we're talking about C# versus F#, then as the other person said, discriminated unions is the main reason I prefer F#. Pipes are excellent too, but I also just like the syntax more.

For C# versus TypeScript, it's primarily the type system. You've got DUs like F#, but you also have structural typing, dependent types, linear types, refinement types, string types, and so on. It's F#'s type system on steroids IMO.

That said, C# is a great language and I use it all the time. I have a modestly popular open-source package that I write primarily in C#; I do that to make sure it's ergonomic for a C# developer first and foremost (since it's the more popular dotnet language by far) before adding in considerations for VB or F# developers like myself.

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#112

Post by hirvi74 »

HumblyTossed wrote: post #100
andrewstuart wrote: post #2

We need Anders to make one final language. A MINIMAL memory safe language. The less it has the better. Rust without the crazy town complexity. The distilled wisdom from C# and Delphi and TypeScript. A programming language that has less instead of more.

You don't have to use all the features of C#. I make my living at it and don't touch a lot of them. The issue with C# is culture. They went full in on blog driven development so there's way too many people who will yell this is the way to do things this week.

It's true. You will incur the wrath of C#'ers if your simple ToDo list app doesn't have a ToDoListItemRepositoryServiceFactory.cs and a minimum of 4 separate layers in which one must update 20 files because you added a property to one class.

Don't get me wrong, I still love C#/.NET. I use it everyday, but my god, has Swift been a breath of fresh air. The Swift community, when not whining about Swift UI, has been much less dogmatic in my experience.

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#113

Post by hirvi74 »

wvenable wrote: post #102
appsoftware wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would you take out of C# etc?

All non-generic container classes and nullable reference types.

> nullable reference types.

What would you suggest instead? I quite like the nullable reference types, but I do know many get annoyed. My brain is often a scurry of squirrels, so I grew to become thankful for the nullable refs overtime.

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#114

Post by hvb2 »

ngruhn wrote: post #94
rafaelmn wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say for sure because I don't know the full situation, but I've heard a similar story a few times and IMNSHO looking at it as "they made the wrong choice initially" is off because it assumes that a C# team could have delivered the initial version in the timeline required to get to the the next level of project. If they had a team that knows nest and can iterate fast with it that's the perfect choice. I've work…

Same experience here. C# might have superior tooling, performance, whatever but the OOP baggage is too heavy. In theory you can write something else than a giant over-complicated, over-abstracted pile of OOP nonsense in C#, but every team I've seen has .

Just to keep it relevant and off topic. Typescript is moving to go because you just cannot get performance out of javascript because of its design.

As he says in the video about perf "you cannot leave 10x on the table".

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#115

Post by hvb2 »

lateforwork wrote: post #77

The real history of C# is that it is a rip off of Java. Anders / Microsoft understandably doesn't want to acknowledge that, but the rest of us can. C# today has diverged from Java, but the original release was Java with a few features added, such as properties, delegates, structs and unchecked exceptions. That last one was a mistake, see https://mckoder.medium.com/the-achilles-heel-of-c-why-its-ex...

He literally says they're standing on the shoulders of Giants.

And, you would be stupid not to look at other languages.

How can you expect anything to be a clean slate to begin with? Is every oop language a rip off then?

Products don't get designed in a vacuum

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#117

Post by afavour »

pier25 wrote: post #76
m132 wrote: post #34

Surprising to me that (in the context of TypeScript) ECMAScript 4, ActionScript, and Google Closure were not mentioned! Especially the first two; Macromedia/Adobe and Netscape/Mozilla have been working on baking TypeScript into JavaScript proper for a whole decade before HTML5, the mobile boom, and the associated problems have emerged. ES4/AS3 even had a nearly identical syntax. What's even more interesting is that M…

> ES4/AS3 even had a nearly identical syntax. Yeah. As someone who lived that era it was so frustrating that they abandoned ES4. I used AS3 daily for almost a decade until Adobe abandoned ActionScript4 and Flash Next around 2015.

I worked on a web app that used AS3 and Adobe Flex for UI. It’s crazy to think about how powerful that framework was and it was twenty years ago now.

No, it was never right for public facing web sites but it shined making internal admins. HTML5 still hasn’t matched it.

EDIT: turns out Flex still lives on as Apache Royale: https://royale.apache.org/ wish I had an excuse to take it for a spin.

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#119

Post by kristianp »

gavmor wrote: post #105
nozzlegear wrote: post #103

I used to dream about a TypeScript that targeted dotnet. These days I'm not so sure I'd use it, only because I have a tendency to get caught in the weeds "big braining" the type system to make the perfect type for every situation. F# is my happy medium for the backend.

What's missing from C#?

Restraint.

Re: The history of C# and TypeScript with Anders Hejlsberg [video]

#120

Post by lateforwork »

hvb2 wrote: post #115
lateforwork wrote: post #77

The real history of C# is that it is a rip off of Java. Anders / Microsoft understandably doesn't want to acknowledge that, but the rest of us can. C# today has diverged from Java, but the original release was Java with a few features added, such as properties, delegates, structs and unchecked exceptions. That last one was a mistake, see https://mckoder.medium.com/the-achilles-heel-of-c-why-its-ex...

He literally says they're standing on the shoulders of Giants. And, you would be stupid not to look at other languages. How can you expect anything to be a clean slate to begin with? Is every oop language a rip off then? Products don't get designed in a vacuum

> He literally says they're standing on the shoulders of Giants.

Yeah everyone says that. He should have called out one giant specifically: James Gosling.

> And, you would be stupid not to look at other languages.

Of course. Is that really what happened here? This was a literal clone. (And it is not like Microsoft never copies competitors' products.) Yes, they did add a few features.

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