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France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

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Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#111

Post by heavyset_go »

Some related information, I see a lot of talk about how people feel social media or phones affect young people, but little data or input from researchers who are not politicians or selling books.

From Nature[1]:

> Time spent on social media among the least influential factors in adolescent mental health

From the Atlantic[2] with citations in the article:

> The Panic Over Smartphones Doesn’t Help Teens,

> It may only make things worse.

> I am a developmental psychologist, and for the past 20 years, I have worked to identify how children develop mental illnesses. Since 2008, I have studied 10-to-15-year-olds using their mobile phones, with the goal of testing how a wide range of their daily experiences, including their digital-technology use, influences their mental health. My colleagues and I have repeatedly failed to find compelling support for the claim that digital-technology use is a major contributor to adolescent depression and other mental-health symptoms.

> Many other researchers have found the same. In fact, a recent study and a review of research on social media and depression concluded that social media is one of the least influential factors in predicting adolescents’ mental health. The most influential factors include a family history of mental disorder; early exposure to adversity, such as violence and discrimination; and school- and family-related stressors, among others. At the end of last year, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine released a report concluding, “Available research that links social media to health shows small effects and weak associations, which may be influenced by a combination of good and bad experiences. Contrary to the current cultural narrative that social media is universally harmful to adolescents, the reality is more complicated.”

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s44220-023-00063-7

[2] https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2024/05/candi...

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#112

Post by kakacik »

logicchains wrote: post #50
King-Aaron wrote: post #15

I don't like the idea of centralised digital ID for the obvious surveillance/privacy arguments and think that side of the conversation needs to be focused on. BUT, I also think that the Social Media experiment has shown that social media in general really, really sucks. It sucks for adults but it's objectively damaging to kids. So like, I am all for restricting kids from it, and honestly I'd happily see it regulated…

Social media is objectively damaging to the interests of the ruling class, who have been objectively damaging to western civilization during the past decades in which they had near-complete control over the flow of information. It'd be batshit crazy to go back to the times when information flow was centralized in the hands of a few corporations, just because a some neurotics can't handle the increased flow of informa…

Thats not argument for anything in this topic. The choice was never binary and it seems you don't understand the discussion.

That illuminati mumbo jumbo part doesn't deserve a comment.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#113

Post by graykey31 »

quotemstr wrote: post #88
Nursie wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This site is social media. Is it? If so then I would say the term "social media" has more or less lost all meaning. To me HN is more like an old-school forum - it has a focus and it has a mod team to keep the rails on the discussion and keep the topics vaguely on topic.

My point is that it's hard to define social media in a way that excludes HN but includes the services that the activist sort thinks are disrespecting the gods of the city and corrupting the youth. Laws must be rooted in conduct, not identy.

Start with classic conditioning that’s implemented in every large social media platform and go from there.

Or go in reverse, look at research into correlation between mental health issues and social media use and extrapolate contributing factors, from those extract the features

Should give a starting point for nailing down the definition.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#114

Post by heavyset_go »

yieldcrv wrote: post #35
voidfunc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Social media is the rock amd roll of its time. Every generation has to have a panic about the children.

I consider it more like an opium crisis of the time Where the whole population is addicted and governors risk their political career to ban the addiction, and then get their territory invaded by the corporations they kicked out who have returned with a foreign military and mercenary army, to push the addiction back on the populace

All of the big "social media" companies support this type of legislation. No one is risking their political career doing exactly what tech companies want lol

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#115

Post by thefz »

sunshine-o wrote: post #99
djtango wrote: post #29

Just the other day the FT put out an article that the current generation of graduates are so serially online that they freeze or go silent when faced with basic small talk questions. I have encountered this for myself. A few months ago New York banned phones at lunch and was discussed on HN [1] We live in times where parents and schools no longer have the authority to enforce behaviour and social media is peer pressu…

I feel all of this has been going on for the last 50 years. TV and video games were a substitute for a normal environment for kids to develop in the at the end of the last century. > We live in times where parents and schools no longer have the authority to enforce behavior Yes but the problem is much deeper. I often observer various "families" with their kids on holidays. The French and the Brits are really a nightm…

> I feel all of this has been going on for the last 50 years. TV and video games were a substitute for a normal environment for kids to develop in the at the end of the last century.

Not really, I was born in the 80s and video games did help me know a lot of people I still hang out with.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#116

Post by terespuwash »

Nursie wrote: post #83
terespuwash wrote: post #39

What a weird idea to isolate teens from a platform instead of regulating it. It’s like if children were forbidden to drink a soda at a bar because they also sell alcohol. Enforcing platform’s safety and educating users (young and old) would be much better to help everyone be healthy in a connected world.

> It’s like if children were forbidden to drink a soda at a bar because they also sell alcohol. Errr... there are quite a few places where children aren't allowed to enter a bar, or can only go to them with parents if the establishment also serves food. > Enforcing platform’s safety and educating users (young and old) would be much better to help everyone It's not 100% clear to me this is true, it may be that the way…

There are many things that can be changed to make the platforms more suitable to younger users. Just banning it instead of searching for a good balance won’t help the next generation to understand the world and take a part in it.

There are so many ways the platforms can be changed but France decided they've tried nothing and they're all out of ideas.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#117

Post by heavyset_go »

Nursie wrote: post #101
thrance wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That comparison is misguided. You can stop social media abruptly and not feel any withdrawal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/perth/comments/1pmvcml/my_14yo_is_l... I think it depends on your definition of withdrawal, but it seems that some teens did experience something analagous to it here in Australia. I think this counts in favour of the ban, myself.

Being discriminated against by the government sucks, and so does getting locked out of the main way the world communicates in the 21st century. I don't blame a 14 year old for not handling a violation of their rights in a mature manner.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#118

Post by heavyset_go »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #42
vasco wrote: post #27

So I guess in 10 or so years whoever doesn't submit their ID card to every online service in existence will not be able to do much of anything online.

Yeah, I for one am getting pissed already about having legitimate parts of the internet cut off unless I'm willing to submit to ID verification. For example, discussions about recent killings by ICE in the US. This example is one where I really don't want to tie my real life ID to my online presence for fear of retribution if I ever feel confident to travel to there again.

So many platforms required you to register and confirm your age via face and ID scans in order to see any of the direct footage from recent events.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#119

Post by heavyset_go »

TheRoque wrote: post #37
vasco wrote: post #27

So I guess in 10 or so years whoever doesn't submit their ID card to every online service in existence will not be able to do much of anything online.

I'm not using any social media besides reddit (if it can even be considered a social media) and I have absolutely 0 problem going through life. What are you talking about ?

You're using it right now.

Re: France passes bill to ban social media use by under-15s

#120

Post by adev_ »

terespuwash wrote: post #110
adev_ wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s like if children were forbidden to drink a soda at a bar because they also sell alcohol The comparison is wrong. It would be more "It is like if children were forbidden to be in a smoker room, just because they are not the one consuming". Yes they should be forbidden, because they do not need to smoke themselves to feel the negative effects. Even without "porn", "murdering/violence" or other controversial cont…

My comparison is about the alarmism and you are doing the same by equivaliting chatting with friends online to smoking which can give cancer. We are ourselves now on a sort of social media platform which shows it’s possible to be responsible and use it wisely with a better design and more rules. Framing the decision in France like a fight against a nocive substance is lazy and avoid talking about nuanced regulation a…

> There are studies showing that regulating adolescent social media use is better than a ban for example.

Not in disagreement. I believe that the ban is not even strictly applicable.

It will just lead to the redirection to a new platform that avoid the restrictions or any jurisdiction, which is worst.

The complete lack of will to tackle the problem by the main Mega networks (Meta, X, Tiktok, Snapchat, Telegram and even Youtube) is currently the main issues here.

For instance, enforcing a "report" to the consummer weekly with the effective time spend on scrolling to promote awareness and help to prevent addiction would already be a first good move. None of them implemented that effectively.

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