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Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

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Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#111

Post by alephnerd »

elcritch wrote: post #98
brainwad wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy services, is your bar good enough, or do you look for best value for money? And are those who try to optimise bigots merely for not buying from their local provider? But anyway, the decrease in hiring in the US will be mostly driven by foreigners that will still be hired, but now not relocate to the US. Why hire someone on a H1-B at an extra cost of 100k when you can hire the same person in some other of…

That’s just another way of admitting that H1-B was always about lowering costs rather than lack of talent.

It's comments like this that make those of us who are of immigrant origins or the children of immigrants indifferent to losses even if we are impacted as well.

Employers abusing the H1B process like WITCH is a known problem and everyone wants it resolved, but going back and implicitly implying that immigrants are subpar pisses people off.

If a cabinet member trashes a semiconductor launch [0] that would have made 9k jobs in GOP-leaning upstate NY, the CEO of that company (who also invented the entire field of flash memory) may as well hedge and shift abroad [1] helping other countries move up the HBM value chain [2]. And even the Trump admin is giving a helping hand [3][4].

If you can't respect our community, why shouldn't we geopolitically hedge as well?

[0] - https://www.syracuse.com/micron/2026/01/trump-cabinet-member...

[1] - https://www.digitimes.com/news/a20260123VL207/micron-commerc...

[2] - https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAICbxB0kT0

[3] - https://youtube.com/watch?v=uDtm-k6JvI8

[4] - https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2025/04/the-india-us-tru...

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#112

Post by xienze »

gosub100 wrote: post #89
xienze wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are only going to be effective in a domain where the job can’t be done just as well by someone on the other side of the planet. Think plumbers, electricians, etc. The fact that the work has to be done “here and now” is the leverage those workers have. A software engineer’s union would just kick whatever offshoring is happening into overdrive.

Unions might be able to bargain against h1b because they can have an honest conversation with management about the "we just can't FIND anybody" lie.

But remember, the company can always decide to just not employ US-based employees (including H1B) at all. Your job can be done elsewhere for a fraction of the cost, remember?

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#113

Post by keeda »

loeg wrote: post #66
Lammy wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems like 5%/year is sort of industry norm. That's because the people running these companies learned the hard way not to write their collusion down, so now they just all totally coincidentally act in the same way that ends up driving wages down and keeping workers afraid and in line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Tech_Employee_Antitrust_L...

Why would you explain this with a conspiracy theory of collusion instead of Occam's razor -- that they were responding to similar changes in market conditions, with input from similar shareholders?

This is not a conspiracy theory, even though what I'm about to say will sound like it. If you can talk to someone from the exec class in confidence (which unfortunately may require a close personal relationship or high trust), they'll tell you there was a clear -- if somewhat tacit -- understanding that the job market had gotten too hot during Covid and something "had to be done" about it after ZIRP ended.

Elon's layoffs at Twitter were basically the signal for the rest of the industry that it's time to reverse the trend.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#114

Post by bojan »

joe_mamba wrote: post #84
xienze wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions are only going to be effective in a domain where the job can’t be done just as well by someone on the other side of the planet. Think plumbers, electricians, etc. The fact that the work has to be done “here and now” is the leverage those workers have. A software engineer’s union would just kick whatever offshoring is happening into overdrive.

Yep this. I think i've lost count of home many US and German companies keep moving their SW positions to my home country because US labor is too expensive and German workers rights and unions too annoying for business. Where I live now in Austria, there's some union of IT workers, but it's small and toothless because they know their work can be offshored and have no leverage especially that the country is already not…

If offshoring were that easy, American and European companies would have been doing it already, as it's a great deal on paper, why wouldn't the companies jump at the opportunity to get engineers for 30% of the cost?

However, the experienced reality repeatedly doesn't live up to the promise.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#115

Post by joe_mamba »

bojan wrote: post #114
joe_mamba wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep this. I think i've lost count of home many US and German companies keep moving their SW positions to my home country because US labor is too expensive and German workers rights and unions too annoying for business. Where I live now in Austria, there's some union of IT workers, but it's small and toothless because they know their work can be offshored and have no leverage especially that the country is already not…

If offshoring were that easy, American and European companies would have been doing it already, as it's a great deal on paper, why wouldn't the companies jump at the opportunity to get engineers for 30% of the cost? However, the experienced reality repeatedly doesn't live up to the promise.

Look, I'm not gonna argue on the pros and cons of offshoring, I'm just telling you the reality of what's happening where I live. Obviously, not everything can be outsourced 1:1 with massive savings and get same quality, but businesses don't care and more and more work is offshored now, whether you want it or not, especially in times of economic downturn when labor cost becomes more pressing and execs can show savings so they're taking their chances whether it pays off in the future or not we'll see.

Nobody would risk disrupting smooth running operations by introducing offshoring to save a few pennies, when free money was raining from the sky, but now that money is getting tighter and covid opened the doors to accepting more work done remotely and less work done in sync face to face, then offshoring is now a lot less risky and off-putting than in the past.

Plus, unlike the Indian offshoring scare of ~20 years ago, besides the remote work thing, offshore labor is a lot more skilled at IT task now. There isn't that massive gap anymore, where only Americans or Germans new how to write SW, and the eastern world only knew to make sneakers and do call support. Thanks to STEM universities, access to good education sources, FOSS and self learning, people outside the west can code just as good but at a lower cost when you keep the same hiring bar and don't just pay some offshore middleman consultancy for the cheapest labor.

And the proof is in the pudding as most big tech companies have large pools of workers in India at this point. You can say all you want, that offshoring isn't gonna work because of quality or culture or whatever, but it sure seems like it is working for them, and I don't think this genie is going back in the bottle.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#116

Post by xienze »

bojan wrote: post #114
joe_mamba wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep this. I think i've lost count of home many US and German companies keep moving their SW positions to my home country because US labor is too expensive and German workers rights and unions too annoying for business. Where I live now in Austria, there's some union of IT workers, but it's small and toothless because they know their work can be offshored and have no leverage especially that the country is already not…

If offshoring were that easy, American and European companies would have been doing it already, as it's a great deal on paper, why wouldn't the companies jump at the opportunity to get engineers for 30% of the cost? However, the experienced reality repeatedly doesn't live up to the promise.

They have been offshoring for decades. We go in cycles of execs asking “why the hell are we paying these entitled Americans so much when Indian will do just as good for peanuts?”, then offshoring, then realizing it doesn’t work that well. The next guy comes in and the cycle repeats.

However, the second an IT union gets established they’re just going to say the hell with it, India ain’t so bad.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#117

Post by selimthegrim »

alephnerd wrote: post #19
pityJuke wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, when the fuck did the Android app I used to play on-device videos with become a streaming app, that then got acquired by Amazon?! (I know the literal answer is on Wikipedia, but I’m flabbergasted.)

Back in 2018-19 because their founder Karan Bedi was smart and recognized he could leverage his past corporate experience in Big Media in India in order to make MX Player a streaming platform targeting India2 and India3, and thus build a scalable business.

2nd and 3rd tier cities?

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#118

Post by Arch-TK »

thedevilslawyer wrote: post #93
futuraperdita wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the time to organize was back when we still had the upper hand This is learned helplessness. It's not going to get better for software engineers anytime soon, I'm afraid. The time to organize is like planting a tree: the best time is 20 years ago, and the second best time is now. Especially if you're an early-career SWE, you seem to have little to lose anyhow.

There's no unions for H1B workers. If there's any union stepping up for their interest, it would find mass enrollment tomorrow. Unfortunately, there isn't support by non-h1b engineers, let alone unions.

Not everywhere is in America you know... And non-H1B workers are probably precisely the kinds of workers that should be the ones rocking the boat.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#119

Post by otterley »

loeg wrote: post #43
otterley wrote: post #21

[redacted due to non-useful information]

Looks like a lot of recruiting and SW Eng I/II for Amazon (approximately a L3-4 at Google or Meta). Does Amazon do up-or-out? The Meta layoff is 100% Reality Labs (they published team names, in addition to locations and roles). Edit: parent comment removed the link, but it was https://esd.wa.gov/employer-requirements/layoffs-and-employe... .

> Does Amazon do up-or-out?

They do not. They have no qualms about eliminating more senior roles as necessary, and generally prefer to staff in a bottom-heavy way because, among other things, it's more frugal.

Re: Amazon braces for another major round of layoffs, 14,000 jobs at risk

#120

Post by joe_mamba »

xienze wrote: post #116
bojan wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If offshoring were that easy, American and European companies would have been doing it already, as it's a great deal on paper, why wouldn't the companies jump at the opportunity to get engineers for 30% of the cost? However, the experienced reality repeatedly doesn't live up to the promise.

They have been offshoring for decades. We go in cycles of execs asking “why the hell are we paying these entitled Americans so much when Indian will do just as good for peanuts?”, then offshoring, then realizing it doesn’t work that well. The next guy comes in and the cycle repeats. However, the second an IT union gets established they’re just going to say the hell with it, India ain’t so bad.

>then realizing it doesn’t work that well

How isn't it working? Most big tech companies have large pools of workers in India/Asia/LatAm/CEE at this point. So something must be working if they keep growing there.

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