Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#111

Post by CGMthrowaway » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:02 AM UTC

nxm wrote: post #5

The key part is electrified and not pure electric.

I never understood the big push for full EVs over hybrid. Roughly speaking, a hybrid gets double the MPG of an ICE car, and a BEV gets double the MPGe of a hybrid. But BEVs require you to add a plug to your garage to get a rapid refuel, when your whole neighborhood gets them it strains the grid, you are range limited, etc...

My hunch is there are some laws or regs somewhere that kept hybrids from really taking off (or rather, they were taking off.. then suddenly were suppressed). Which is why I don't interpret headlines like these to mean "consumers have crossed the tipping point" - in many cases it is incentive-driven, not pure consumer demand.

The EU is committed to the full EV route and that is not changing. But it's not taking hold in the US, and over the next few years the big thing we will see being sold is actually EREVs, which are BEVs with a gas generator attached to charge the battery (yes, really).

Source: in the industry

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#112

Post by mamp » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:03 AM UTC

dottjt wrote: post #63

jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind paying more for a European product, and as for the 'poor long term reliability': we don't know what the long term reliability of Chinese vehicles is yet. Not that it really matters, my car is 27 years old this year and I won't be getting another one but that has to do with wanting a car that is doing what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

Sadly, the US is more likely to at war with Europe than China

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#113

Post by eru » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:03 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #101

tehjoker wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

> China is much less likely to attack civilians. They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad. > Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I'm not projecting, merely being cautious. Besides, I have no illusion about either America or Israel doing something similar, especially not with their current upper cadre but this subthread is…

> They were pretty happy to attack their own civilians, [...]

Yes.

> [...] I see no reason to think why that would be different abroad.

Well, you can look at the history of the PRC so far.

> I would imagine it isn't. See also: partnering with Putin in the war with Ukraine.

It's not all that much of a partnership. They are mostly squeezing Russia dry with cheap oil, and press territorial concessions out of the Tsar in the East, when he's busy in the West.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#114

Post by dathinab » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:04 AM UTC

dottjt wrote: post #63

jacquesm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mind paying more for a European product, and as for the 'poor long term reliability': we don't know what the long term reliability of Chinese vehicles is yet. Not that it really matters, my car is 27 years old this year and I won't be getting another one but that has to do with wanting a car that is doing what I want it to do rather than what it wants to do.

I don't know if this is paranoia, but one fear I have for high-tech Chinese products is that if a world war were to start with China, that they'd have the ability to remotely disable these kinds of products.

it's not paranoia

chips with backdoors which would allow exactly something like that (or many other things) have been found more then once in recent years AFIK

through a fancy personal car stopping working is the least relevant target. Network backbone, smart phones, and other core infrastructure is a much more relevant target. And even for cars all the non-personal vehicles (e.g. ambulance, trucks, police ...) are much more relevant targets.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#115

Post by dmix » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:04 AM UTC

maxdo wrote: post #106

German cars have lost their technological edge. They can't even build their own infotainment systems anymore. They're paying billions to China to do it for them. I can't overstate how catastrophically stupid this is. Paying what they consider smaller competitors real cash to build core software, instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent. This isn't just…

> instead of developing that capability in-house or acquiring a few startups with decent engineering talent.

It's usually the former and their infotainment stuff is usually nothing to get excited about. When they buy startups they get bogged down and burn off the talent quickly.

Maybe the solution is not having the same small set of car companies trying to pull off the survival balancing act as we did a century ago, maybe that's why China is progressing quicker.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#116

Post by linksnapzz » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:05 AM UTC

light_hue_1 wrote: post #87

appplication wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China may become the superpower on volume but I would be surprised if the upper quartile (by price) of western buyers were interested in Chinese vehicles. Too much quality issues across the board on Chinese made products, unless you have a trusted non-Chinese company with stringent quality control (e.g. Apple model). I’m sure they can handily win the lower end of the market though. And yes I’m aware many western manu…

Nothing to do with quality. It's all image. When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's available elsewhere, like we did with Japan, there will be a reckoning once more. And again American cars will become the laughing stock they really are. In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like the last round did. Further hollowing out our industrial base and p…

>When Americans discover again how crappy their cars are compared to what's >available elsewhere, like we did with Japan

No, that's not what happened. Japanese manufacturers made cars in the US, to match US tastes. Japanese cars as sold in Japan, were not models Americans would buy.

>In the meantime, this incredibly short sighted protectionism will end just like >the last round did.

It'll end with...Chinese cars made in US factories w/ American workers? Chinese V8 pickup trucks failing to win market share against the US competition?

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#117

Post by drnick1 » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:05 AM UTC

kulahan wrote: post #47

qiqitori wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep seeing "underequipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers" on HN. What kind of stuff is missing? This is not a loaded question, I only drive a couple times a month, and the vehicle I'm driving is an older Prius, so I probably lack imagination. EVs are supposed to be technologically pretty simple, most of an EV's value being in the battery packs. I've been thinking about upgrading, perhaps to a Niss…

In terms of features I see on high end cars… (no clue if these are available in Chinese cars, just to help you get an idea of what exists) 1. Backup camera with lines that move as you turn the wheel 2. Camera setup that lets you see how close you are to curbs, other cars, etc. from a plethora of unexpected angles (you can get a top-down view of your car! Pretty cool.) 3. Automatic parking when parallel parking 4. “Re…

> 5. Lots of remote features tied to an app. The ability to look through cameras, auto-record videos when people get close, lock and unlock and view status of the car. Remote tracking via GPS in case it’s stolen.

This is akin to spyware, since inevitably it is a cloud service using an onboard cellular modem.

I would personally rather have none of 1-10. What I do want in a high-end vehicle is things that are there for my benefit (heated steering wheel, heated/ventilated seats, spacious cupholders, etc.) not the manufacturer's.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#118

Post by linksnapzz » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:06 AM UTC

GlacierFox wrote: post #13

sklargh wrote: post #8

I think Porsche is really in trouble here. I’m not anti-EV but the electric Macan and Cayenne look awful. They are under equipped technologically relative to their Chinese peers (heck basically anything). Porsche sort of sold its soul for this tech-forward design but it doesn’t deliver any meaningful benefits, these cars don’t even have level 2+ highway cruise control. In the meantime I get a bunch of crap screens an…

EV cars are mostly just appliances now. Not sure how the prestigious Porsche badge (or any other really) can stand out into the future.

Making things that...track better than an appliance.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#119

Post by ericmay » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:07 AM UTC

tehjoker wrote: post #90

jacquesm wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After the Israeli attack using pagers I think this is no longer paranoid at all. The same goes for Chinese built cloud connected hardware, especially if it is grid connected, contains heater elements or batteries. Inverters, solar panels, vehicles, 3D printers, the list is endless and all of these are either potential fire starters or ways to destabilize the grid. Used maliciously the potential for misery is pretty l…

China is much less likely to attack civilians. Don't project america and israel's way of war onto others. I would imagine part of their strategy is to win hearts ad minds. America just kills and kills and kills and wonders why we arent loved.

Hmmm, what’s your sample size? Which wars has China been involved with and how have they treated civilians?

If Taiwan is invaded how do you think things will go if some number of Taiwanese people are defending the island mixed in with the local populace? Will the PLA call in an airstrike on an apartment with a sniper, or do you think they’ll go the hearts and minds route?

Part of the problem with your statement here, in my view, is you’re suggesting that the United States or Israel’s “way of war” is. It the default, or that in comparison to how other countries treat civilians may actually be more humane. I don’t think there’s a large sample size, or any particularly strong evidence to suggest how China will treat civilians.

And if you take into account how China has treated its own people, it’s not much better or worse than the United States. Maybe worst, actually, since Americans do have a legal right to protest.

Re: Porsche sold more electrified cars in Europe in 2025 than pure gas-powered cars

#120

Post by Grimblewald » Tue, Jan 20, 2026, 3:08 AM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #84

KnuthIsGod wrote: post #40

Global sales of Porsche, Audi, Mercedes and BMW brand ( BMW Group sales increased marginally, but includes) have all declined. The end is in sight for German cars as Chinese made electric cars take over. I have had several German cars. Never again ! Sticking to Japanese and probably Chinese cars in the future. German cars were decent once. Now they are notorious for poor long term reliability.

Are all German cars the same? Is there a reason they all declined together, in your opinion?

no OP, but as someone who comes from a family where German cars were king for several reasons, who have all become disillusioned and now buy Asian cars, where the reason is simple. American style corporate greed infested German auto-manufactures and it shows at every level.

It is most obvious with things like subscription services for basic function, like acceleration or the seat heaters you already paid for, but it has been present in a more insidious way for far longer, like intentionally breaking good design so that small cheap and easy to mass manufacture parts break at predictable schedules. These are then quoted to you at $900+ for a part that will cost you 60 through china, for what is a plastic mould, some magnets and a wire. The cheap replacements work just fine and last just as long.

So, over time, we've become so fed-up with it, and it is a problem present from bmw, vw, audi and beyond, that we just started going with Toyota/Hyundai or Chinese EV's etc, and no one has a gripe since. Repairs when required are cheap and easy, often easily done at home, cars drive almost if not just as well, mileage is comparable, joy of driving is comparable, overall there is simply no value left in German cars beyond the status symbol, something we care little for.