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High-Level Is the Goal

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Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#111

Post by mrsmrtss »

mrsmrtss wrote: post #102
wiseowise wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've picked Dart because it was the only language that could have small aot binaries, hot reload capable runtime without compromise and most importantly because they could influence development of the language. C# is one of the worst choices they could make at the time.

Why would C# be the worst choice? Do you gave any real arguments or is it just your biased opinion.

Sorry, made a typo with 'gave' -> 'have'. But the point stays , why would C# be (one of) the worst choices here (when C# has small AOT binaries, hot reload etc)?

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#112

Post by antonvs »

teiferer wrote: post #67

> a gigantic manual that lists every property of the system in excruciating detail, which is totally worthless for learning and barely usable as reference. It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else? > low-level tools are terrible too It seems to me the author is confusing lack of familiarity with lack of existence. There are lots of fantastic tools out t…

> It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else?

This is one of those "there are N types of people in the world". I'm with you, a detailed reference is the ideal scenario, but there seem to be many people who don't find that useful given their knowledge acquisition style.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#113

Post by lo_zamoyski »

teiferer wrote: post #67

> a gigantic manual that lists every property of the system in excruciating detail, which is totally worthless for learning and barely usable as reference. It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else? > low-level tools are terrible too It seems to me the author is confusing lack of familiarity with lack of existence. There are lots of fantastic tools out t…

As a reference, yes, when you already have the context. But you need a guide. In fact, that's also the function of a doctoral advisor, to help you navigate a subject matter.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#114

Post by flumpcakes »

ahartmetz wrote: post #99
flumpcakes wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else? I guess it's like a dictionary: it's only useful if you know the word you want to look up, rather than reading through every definition until you find the function/library/ability that you want. I do agree though, when I need to look something up, I do want it in great detail - it just isn't a very good learni…

Language servers with LSP for Rust and C++ are available and, I believe, widely used. At least I use them.

I think the original article wasn't just proposing the existence of language servers, but specifically that they (that do exist) should be used to help beginners to make the process of low level software development approach the level of ease as web development with it's tooling.

I'm not quite sure what they would look like in practise.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#115

Post by teiferer »

antonvs wrote: post #112
teiferer wrote: post #67

> a gigantic manual that lists every property of the system in excruciating detail, which is totally worthless for learning and barely usable as reference. It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else? > low-level tools are terrible too It seems to me the author is confusing lack of familiarity with lack of existence. There are lots of fantastic tools out t…

> It's the only usable form of reference! I want all the details to be presented in a reference. Where else? This is one of those "there are N types of people in the world". I'm with you, a detailed reference is the ideal scenario, but there seem to be many people who don't find that useful given their knowledge acquisition style.

Sure. But they explicitly claimed that a detailed reference is not useful as a reference.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#116

Post by auggierose »

rubymamis wrote: post #104
torginus wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think Qt sucks? Other than the C++ focus, and basically the framework's decision to make you use everything they give you, which is controversial. But apps made with Qt as an end product don't think suck. Qt is a fully featured and modern and high quality framework.

I agree. Modern Qt is great - you get the performance of C++ and the ease of use (simpler than React!) of creating UIs in QML. I've built my note-taking app with a from scratch block editor[1] (like Notions's) with it. Now working on a mobile version[2]. Also working on a LLM client[3]. And working on a library that will simplify and help others build such apps easily - which is my solution to the original article au…

So, are you using QT for the mobile version as well?

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#117

Post by tonyedgecombe »

cyber_kinetist wrote: post #11

I think the real conclusion is: someone has to make a native cross-platform desktop UI framework that doesn't suck. (Yeah Qt exists, but it really sucks...) Until then, everyone will default to just using the browser for a desktop app, and the beatings will continue. Because of this, I'm really looking forward for PanGUI to step up ( https://www.pangui.io/ ), their UI framework is very promising and I would start usi…

>someone has to make a native cross-platform desktop UI framework that doesn't suck.

You can't. At best it will shine on one platform and be mediocre on all the others. At worst it will be mediocre everywhere. There are too many differences between Windows, macOS and the various Linux desktops. That's before you start thinking about mobile.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#118

Post by allreduce »

The problem is not going away until the deskilling of the software profession is reversed.

I don't see it happening for end user stuff like Reddit. The market seems to want the barely working thing for the most cheap in all consumer product categories.

And hiring someone desperate who has skimmed a React and Node JS tutorial page and is now fullstack something is cheap. Or at least the kind of cheap you can reach by greedily optimizing KPIs.

Re: High-Level Is the Goal

#120

Post by rubymamis »

auggierose wrote: post #116
rubymamis wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. Modern Qt is great - you get the performance of C++ and the ease of use (simpler than React!) of creating UIs in QML. I've built my note-taking app with a from scratch block editor[1] (like Notions's) with it. Now working on a mobile version[2]. Also working on a LLM client[3]. And working on a library that will simplify and help others build such apps easily - which is my solution to the original article au…

So, are you using QT for the mobile version as well?

Yes! I'm not using Qt's built-in components like StackView, but reimplementing them from scratch to better support swipe gestures, etc so they feel native-like.
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