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Indifference is a power (2015)

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Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#111

Post by poulpy123 »

Aurornis wrote: post #66

I find classic Stoicism interesting, but these modern social media and influencer versions of Stoicism feel like something else entirely. The heading and subheading of this article invoke ideas of indifference and warriors and prisoners. This appeals to frustrated people, more often men, who are struggling with emotional regulation and want a solution that feels like a tough response. Maybe there’s something useful i…

What ? You don't want to read a book by a total rando about how stoicism will transform you into an alpha male in 30 days and with a gen ai cover of a Greek warrior from 300 ?

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#112

Post by begueradj »

MonkeyClub wrote: post #82
begueradj wrote: post #59

Since the Covid theater, Stoicism is everywhere: that's why I don't read about it anymore because wherever the mass and Pavlov dogs head, the truth is elsewhere.

That's kind of a narrow take; the mainstream may be directed towards a good thing and just not have the depth to draw a benefit, its attention being superficial and fleeting. E.g. the Pavlovian dog metaphor is quite a mainstream trope, but doesn't it carry an important message nevertheless? If anything, I would say that fleeting takes and offhand dismissals are what determines and solidifies the mainstream's superfic…

My whole comment refers to the "Propaganda" book by Edward Bernays.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#113

Post by zozbot234 »

alphazard wrote: post #93

A lot of comments here use this metaphor of emotions as things that flow from a source, and need to be expressed or they will accumulate and explode. I think this can be traced to pop-psychology bullshit, and there isn't any neuroscientific basis backing it up. It seems like wishful thinking by people who like expressing their emotions to others and want to justify their spend on therapists, or their occasional emoti…

A Stoic would say that negative emotions have root causes in the misconceptions you hold about how the world works, and what you can and cannot affect about it. If you don't proactively address those root causes (which doesn't require "expressing" the emotion, but does require noticing and judging it without reflexive acceptance) the negativity will in fact "keep flowing" and your short-term disregard of it will be less and less effective.

It's not a good "habit" to disregard negative emotions without also examining them.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#114

Post by raffael_de »

Aurornis wrote: post #102
zozbot234 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. You're encouraged to work through your emotions proactively and in depth (the Stoics encouraged askesis which literally means 'training' or 'exercise') so that they don't adversely affect you and others down the road. Of course, you should also learn how to counter these effects in the mom…

> Proper Stoicism is not about dodging your emotions, it's very much about dodging the adverse behavioral effects of your emotions. I’m not disagreeing with this. I understand classic stoicism, but I’ve also seen the effects of modern pseudo-stoicism as pushed by influencers and social media. Focusing on stoicism and trying to dodge the effects of your emotions is a reasonable strategy for someone who is truly stuck…

another example are soldiers who adapted to war and have to reintegrate back into society.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#115

Post by stackedinserter »

parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

"undesirable masculine traits" haha

Who un-desires them? You?

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#116

Post by Y_Y »

blamestross wrote: post #3

My journey with stoicism has been useful and powerful at every phase, but for future and fellow walkers of this path I leave advice: You you a mindful stoic or a dissociated one? I'd argue dissociation, at least in the short term, is a critical part of the process. To not let the gut reactions carry you away. You do often need to realize, those reactions are still often happening. You body does it's own thing and you…

> but if you don't add going back and feeling those emotions to the tools, you are just a timebomb running an emotional debt and dissociating from it

What would that entail? I can't imagine e.g. taking some time on Sunday afternoon to feel that panic I suppressed from the crisis on Monday.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#117

Post by dpkirchner »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #100
zxcvasd wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The group of traits often described by "toxic masculinity" are overwhelmingly displayed only by males, so... it makes sense? If you aren't someone who displays that specific bundle of traits/behaviors, I would suggest being stoic about it and not taking the term personally.

The term is overused. Females have extremely toxic behavior as well. But the term toxic feminist is not used to label them. It’s nowhere near as extreme.

The world does not lack terms to describe any feminine behavior, toxic or otherwise, so I don't think this is a real problem.

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#118

Post by stackedinserter »

SirFatty wrote: post #7
parpfish wrote: post #4

I can’t help but think that the rise in stoicisms popularity among manosphere types because it lets them repackage a lot of more undesirable masculine traits under a legitimate label— You’re not allowed to feel things. Emotions make you weak. Just suck it up and power through. Bottle it up. Whether those traits a “real stoicism” or not doesn’t matter, because that’s the way it gets spread through TikTok length discou…

"Just suck it up and power through" I don't feel that is a "undesirable masculine trait", I live by that and still "feel things" and have emotions.

It's not "suck it up and move on", it's "accept the reality as starting point and do what's possible, with calm clear mind"

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#119

Post by [deleted] »

Aurornis wrote: post #66

I find classic Stoicism interesting, but these modern social media and influencer versions of Stoicism feel like something else entirely. The heading and subheading of this article invoke ideas of indifference and warriors and prisoners. This appeals to frustrated people, more often men, who are struggling with emotional regulation and want a solution that feels like a tough response. Maybe there’s something useful i…

[deleted]

Re: Indifference is a power (2015)

#120

Post by exe34 »

everdrive wrote: post #13
SirFatty wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Just suck it up and power through" I don't feel that is a "undesirable masculine trait", I live by that and still "feel things" and have emotions.

One thing that's worth noting is that Epictetus himself was a slave, and I think it's informed a lot of his thoughts. For him, true freedom is being able to overcome the events of the world. You may not be able to control whether or not you're a slave, but (to Epictetus) you can control how you feel about being a slave, and that is true freedom. ie, he saw the world as full of misery and difficulty, and saw modifying…

Marcus Aurelius was the most powerful man in the world and adopted the same outlook. there were people along the whole spectrum between slave and emperor who also did.
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