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Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

cnbc.com

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Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#111

Post by qnpnpmqppnp »

thayne wrote: post #65

This seems like a pretty significant anti-trust issue. One of the two mobile OS makers is using a product from the other for its AI assistance. And that means that basically all mobile devices will be using the same AI technology. I don't expect the current US government to do anything about it though.

What antitrust rule do you think would be breached?

I admit I don't see the issue here. Companies are free to select their service providers, and free to dominate a market (as long as they don't abuse such dominant position).

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#112

Post by ChrisArchitect »

Google release hints at this being more than just Siri:

> Apple and Google have entered into a multi-year collaboration under which the next generation of Apple Foundation Models will be based on Google's Gemini models and cloud technology. These models will help power future Apple Intelligence features, including a more personalized Siri coming this year.

... https://blog.google/company-news/inside-google/company-annou...

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#113

Post by ceejayoz »

scotty79 wrote: post #70
Fiveplus wrote: post #42

The writing was on the wall the moment Apple stopped trying to buy their way into the server-side training game like what three years ago? Apple has the best edge inference silicon in the world (neural engine), but they have effectively zero presence in a training datacenter. They simply do not have the TPU pods or the H100 clusters to train a frontier model like Gemini 2.5 or 3.0 from scratch without burning 10 year…

> without burning 10 years of cash flow. Wasn't Apple sitting on a pile of cash and having no good ideas what to spend it on?

That doesn't make lighting it on fire a great option.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#114

Post by ceejayoz »

Fiveplus wrote: post #42

The writing was on the wall the moment Apple stopped trying to buy their way into the server-side training game like what three years ago? Apple has the best edge inference silicon in the world (neural engine), but they have effectively zero presence in a training datacenter. They simply do not have the TPU pods or the H100 clusters to train a frontier model like Gemini 2.5 or 3.0 from scratch without burning 10 year…

> I'm oversimplifying but this effectively turns the iPhone into a dumb terminal for Google's brain, wrapped in Apple's privacy theater.

This sort of thing didn't work out great for Mozilla. Apple, thankfully, has other business bringing in the revenue, but it's still a bit wild to put a core bit of the product in the hands of the only other major competitor in the smartphone OS space!

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#115

Post by greentea23 »

ysnp wrote: post #52
Fiveplus wrote: post #42

The writing was on the wall the moment Apple stopped trying to buy their way into the server-side training game like what three years ago? Apple has the best edge inference silicon in the world (neural engine), but they have effectively zero presence in a training datacenter. They simply do not have the TPU pods or the H100 clusters to train a frontier model like Gemini 2.5 or 3.0 from scratch without burning 10 year…

Could you elaborate a bit on why you've judged it as privacy theatre? I'm skeptical but uninformed, and I believe Mullvad are taking a similar approach.

Mullvad is nothing like Apple. For apple devices: - need real email and real phone number to even boot the device - cannot disable telemetry - app store apps only, even though many key privacy preserving apps are not available - /etc/hosts are not your own, DNS control in general is extremely weak - VPN apps on idevices have artificial holes - can't change push notification provider - can only use webkit for browsers, which lacks many important privacy preserving capabilities - need to use an app you don't trust but want to sandbox it from your real information? Too bad, no way to do so. - the source code is closed so Apple can claim X but do Y, you have no proof that you are secure or private - without control of your OS you are subject to Apple complying with the government and pushing updates to serve them not you, which they are happy to do to make a buck

Mullvad requires nothing but an envelope with cash in it and a hash code and stores nothing. Apple owns you.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#118

Post by greentea23 »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #86
tempodox wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gov’t can force them to reveal any user’s data and slap them with a gag order so no one will ever know this happened.

All user data is E2E encrypted, so the government literally cannot force this. This has been the source of numerous disputes [0, 1] that either result in the device itself being cracked [0] (due to weak passwords or vulnerabilities in device-level protection) or governments attempting to ban E2E encryption altogether [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org…

What you cited is for data on a device that was turned off. Not daily internet connected usage. No one is saying you have no protection at all with Apple, it is just very limited compared to what it should be by modern security best practices, and much worse than what can be achieved on android and linux.

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#119

Post by maxloh »

Fiveplus wrote: post #42

The writing was on the wall the moment Apple stopped trying to buy their way into the server-side training game like what three years ago? Apple has the best edge inference silicon in the world (neural engine), but they have effectively zero presence in a training datacenter. They simply do not have the TPU pods or the H100 clusters to train a frontier model like Gemini 2.5 or 3.0 from scratch without burning 10 year…

Is the training cost really that high, though?

The Allen Institute (a non-profit) just released the Molmo 2 and Olmo 3 models. They trained these from scratch using public datasets, and they are performance-competitive with Gemini in several benchmarks [0] [1].

AMD was also able to successfully train an older version of OLMo on their hardware using the published code, data, and recipe [2].

If a non-profit and a chip vendor (training for marketing purposes) can do this, it clearly doesn't require "burning 10 years of cash flow" or a Google-scale TPU farm.

[0]: https://allenai.org/blog/molmo2

[1]: https://allenai.org/blog/olmo3

[2]: https://huggingface.co/amd/AMD-OLMo

Re: Apple picks Gemini to power Siri

#120

Post by mmh0000 »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #86
tempodox wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The gov’t can force them to reveal any user’s data and slap them with a gag order so no one will ever know this happened.

All user data is E2E encrypted, so the government literally cannot force this. This has been the source of numerous disputes [0, 1] that either result in the device itself being cracked [0] (due to weak passwords or vulnerabilities in device-level protection) or governments attempting to ban E2E encryption altogether [1]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple%E2%80%93FBI_encryption_d... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org…

Maybe E2E, but the data eventually has to be decrypted to read it.

Then you learn that every modern CPU has a built-in backdoor, a dedicated processor core, running a closed-source operating system, with direct access to the entire system RAM, and network access. [a][b][c][d].

You can not trust any modern hardware.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Platform_Security_Processo...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture_family#Securi...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_and_privacy_of_iOS

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