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Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

donutlab.com

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Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#111

Post by ninkendo »

jfengel wrote: post #105
ninkendo wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s range anxiety and it’s real. And it’s not entirely unjustified. Where I live in the Midwest I have literally never seen a public charging station. I know they exist because I can search for them on maps app and I see dots, but it speaks to their general small numbers that I’ve never seen one in person that I can remember. Now, prior to this, I lived in California for many years from 2011 until 2019, and I saw to…

I suspect that the causation runs the other way. They think EV owners, Californians, and anyone who doesn't smell like petroleum is crazy. Therefore they won't buy electric cars and so nobody builds charging stations.

I can only speak for the people I know well (I know people from lots of different backgrounds here), but I can confidently say that every one of them would love EVs if charging stations were everywhere and charged in 10 minutes.

There may be a real chicken-and-egg problem with building the charging stations, but if it were magically fixed and ultra fast charging stations were ubiquitous overnight, I think minds would change overnight as well. It’s just nobody has the motivation to take the financial hit to build them and jump-start things.

My point being that they’re not irrational, and it’s not EV hatred that is driving it.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#112

Post by tzs »

cloudfudge wrote: post #13

From the donutlab page: > It can be charged to full in just five minutes without limiting charging to 80%, and supports full discharge safely, repeatedly, and reliably. From the motorcycle youtube video[1]: > delivers up to 370 miles (600 km) of range and adds up to 186 miles (300 km) in under 10 minutes One is claiming 100% in 5 minutes, and the other is claiming ~50% in 10 minutes. Why are their claims so different…

One is what the battery is capable of given a favorable environment, the other is what you can get in the environment of that motorcycle?

If might be for example that in the motorcycle the battery or the other components that have to handle the charge current cannot dissipate heat fast enough to allow charging with the maximum current the batter allows. In an EV the pack shape probably has a higher surface area to volume ratio making it cool better, and an EV might also be able to actively cool it.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#113

Post by [deleted] »

jfengel wrote: post #108
nine_k wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thickness of the cables is often due to their water cooling. Transferring 1 MW at 99.9% efficiency means 1kW escaping as heat.

That's about the same as a hair dryer. Maybe I can save time by charging my car and setting my 'do simultaneously.

[deleted]

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#114

Post by [deleted] »

ninkendo wrote: post #111
jfengel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the causation runs the other way. They think EV owners, Californians, and anyone who doesn't smell like petroleum is crazy. Therefore they won't buy electric cars and so nobody builds charging stations.

I can only speak for the people I know well (I know people from lots of different backgrounds here), but I can confidently say that every one of them would love EVs if charging stations were everywhere and charged in 10 minutes. There may be a real chicken-and-egg problem with building the charging stations, but if it were magically fixed and ultra fast charging stations were ubiquitous overnight, I think minds would…

[deleted]

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#115

Post by Workaccount2 »

ninkendo wrote: post #111
jfengel wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that the causation runs the other way. They think EV owners, Californians, and anyone who doesn't smell like petroleum is crazy. Therefore they won't buy electric cars and so nobody builds charging stations.

I can only speak for the people I know well (I know people from lots of different backgrounds here), but I can confidently say that every one of them would love EVs if charging stations were everywhere and charged in 10 minutes. There may be a real chicken-and-egg problem with building the charging stations, but if it were magically fixed and ultra fast charging stations were ubiquitous overnight, I think minds would…

The biggest issue is that people think EV's are gas cars that have electricity instead of gasoline, with the main difference being you have to sit at the "gas pump" for 45 minutes instead of 2.

But the way you daily an EV is totally different than a gas car, and even the way you travel is totally different. People have no concept of EV ownership, so they just go with the gas model that they know. But it is totally incorrect.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#116

Post by [deleted] »

xbmcuser wrote: post #72
1970-01-01 wrote: post #68

So solid state battery tech is very likely on-schedule for mass production over the next 4 years. There really isn't much time left for the haters to post stories attempting to factually dismantle and dismiss EVs before EVs pass the 51% adoption curve in 2030.

For me current battery tech is already good enough for passenger ev they cant even use the full charging speed capacity or the charge discharge cycles. Solid state batteries might be useful for heavy duty trucking or aeroplanes/drones

[deleted]

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#117

Post by worik »

ninkendo wrote: post #99
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even as things currently stand, some folks just have a bone to pick with EVs. Even if future models have an 800mi range, can charge to 100% in 5 minutes, and have useful lifetimes as long or longer than ICE counterparts, some will figure out some reason to get angry about them.

It’s range anxiety and it’s real. And it’s not entirely unjustified. Where I live in the Midwest I have literally never seen a public charging station. I know they exist because I can search for them on maps app and I see dots, but it speaks to their general small numbers that I’ve never seen one in person that I can remember. Now, prior to this, I lived in California for many years from 2011 until 2019, and I saw to…

Where I live (Ōtepoti Aotearoa) charging at a charging station works out to be about the same price as petrol

I have a plug in hybrid, and close to zero expertise, but I only charge at home, now

I am doubtful that an EV is remotely economical if you cannot charge it at home

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#118

Post by Workaccount2 »

This is so out of left field and so "ideal" that it warrants some pretty heavy skepticism. Donut isn't even a battery company, and plenty of other battery companies with lots of knowledge and lots more money have been pouring over this problem with mixed results.

Because of this, now I am even a bit skeptical of their electric motor claims, which before I didn't really question much at all.

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#119

Post by WaxProlix »

stonogo wrote: post #96
senordevnyc wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's fine, those folks can just get angrier and angrier as the market makes their ICE cars more and more difficult and expensive to own.

I'm still waiting for the EV that's a car instead of some kind of techbro reimagining of personal transportation with a 27" tv glued to the dash. So far the plug-in hybrid market is figuring that out first -- the Mazda CX90 is a real car. The VW ID3 gets close, but it still feels like someone tried to design a B-movie space ship. There's a great market out there willing to buy B-movie space ships, but if EVs are goin…

Unfortunately, most ICE cars these days are buggy tablet-enhanced rolling privacy invasions, too. I think the trend is starting to abate but physical climate control buttons alone won't fix the less immediately obvious issues with tech bro car design

Re: Donut Lab’s all-solid-state battery delivers 400 Wh/kg of energy density

#120

Post by CastIron888 »

calmbonsai wrote: post #84
jjcm wrote: post #48

One of the things I haven't seen discussed yet in the comments is this claim: Clay-like design freedom They're claiming this not only can fit custom geometries, but can be part of the structure itself. Would love to see what they're building this out of. I expect we'll see some people dissecting the verve cycle batteries soon enough.

The real issue with "clay-like design freedom" is the collective knock-on effects of thermal and conductive inefficiencies. We've had "clay-like design freedom" since the early days of carbon-zinc batteries, but it turns out that it's far better (both for manufacturing, chemistry, and safety) to have a continuous volume of relative thermal and electrolytic quiescence that's, largely, isolated from physical strains. T…

The Fordson tractor of 1917 appears to use the engine block and transmission case as basic structural members of the tractor.

Not a fast vehicle, but tough.

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