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My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

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Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#111

Post by brendyn »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #96
JoshTriplett wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Linus rants Linus is arguing against a strawman that Conservancy never actually argued. See https://sfconservancy.org/news/2025/dec/24/vizio-msa-irrelev... for details. > Which brings us to the question: what is this guy going to do with (presumably) the kernel source? https://openaps.org/

If you have a pacemaker implanted, do you believe you have the right to modify and update the software that operates it? Separately, do you think it's remotely a good idea?

Obviously yes to the first question. How could you possibly not have the right to operating your own heart. Naturally it would generally not be a good idea.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#112

Post by bitmasher9 »

jacquesm wrote: post #83
schmuckonwheels wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This got buried on HN a few days ago which is a shame: https://social.kernel.org/notice/B1aR6QFuzksLVSyBZQ Linus rants that the SFC is wrong and argues that the GPLv2 which the kernel is licensed under does NOT force you to open your hardware. The spirit of the GPLv2 was about contributing software improvements back to the community. Which brings us to the question: what is this guy going to do with (presumably) the…

There are a lot of people hacking on insulin pumps and they are lightyears ahead of commerce. If you want a very interesting rabbit hole to dive into try 'artificial pancreas hacking' as google feed. One interesting link: https://www.drugtopics.com/view/hacking-diabetes-the-diy-bio... I would trust the people that hack on these systems to be even more motivated than the manufacturers to make sure they don't fuck up,…

> it's the equivalent of flying a plane you built yourself

A great analogy because people die that way. I personally would never push code to another person’s insulin pump (or advertise code as being used for an insulin pump) because I couldn’t live with the guilt if my bug got someone else killed.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#113

Post by bitmasher9 »

abigail95 wrote: post #56
robomartin wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what planet does a lawsuit cost hundreds of dollars?

$405 https://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/index.cfm/attorney-inf...

I’ve personally never seen a lawsuit cost less than a few grand in legal fees even for small time bully defense.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#114

Post by austhrow743 »

cj wrote: post #102
austhrow743 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basis? You mean reason? They want the Linux kernel source code.

No, he means basis, not reason. There's a difference and I'm genuinely curious in your answer.

Sure, I understand that there's a difference. That's why I sought clarification.

My understanding of the concept of "basis" does not fit the context of sending an email, and "reason" is the closest I can find that fits.

Basis being concerned with rules or authority. The assumption being when asking "what is the basis for X?" that there was a bar that needed to be met beyond the doers motivations. That there needed to be more than they wanted to. Which of course, does not apply to sending an email. I could email you right now asking you what your favourite type of fish is or seeing if you want to play a game of chess, no basis needed. I'd just need a reason to.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#115

Post by cj »

austhrow743 wrote: post #114
cj wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, he means basis, not reason. There's a difference and I'm genuinely curious in your answer.

Sure, I understand that there's a difference. That's why I sought clarification. My understanding of the concept of "basis" does not fit the context of sending an email, and "reason" is the closest I can find that fits. Basis being concerned with rules or authority. The assumption being when asking "what is the basis for X?" that there was a bar that needed to be met beyond the doers motivations. That there needed to…

That’s a very intricate and convoluted way of saying they have no basis for making a demand.

But sounds like we agree, they have no real basis for making a demand.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#116

Post by jacquesm »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #112
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people hacking on insulin pumps and they are lightyears ahead of commerce. If you want a very interesting rabbit hole to dive into try 'artificial pancreas hacking' as google feed. One interesting link: https://www.drugtopics.com/view/hacking-diabetes-the-diy-bio... I would trust the people that hack on these systems to be even more motivated than the manufacturers to make sure they don't fuck up,…

> it's the equivalent of flying a plane you built yourself A great analogy because people die that way. I personally would never push code to another person’s insulin pump (or advertise code as being used for an insulin pump) because I couldn’t live with the guilt if my bug got someone else killed.

I know people die that way (GA). But someone is working for the companies that make insulin pumps and they are not as a rule equally motivated so I would expect them to do worse, not better.

And to the best of my knowledge none of the closed-loop people have died as a result of their work and they are very good at peer reviewing each others work to make sure it stays that way. And I'd trust my life to open source in such a setting long before I'd do it to closed source. At least I'd have a chance to see what the quality of the code is, which in the embedded space ranges from 'wow' all the way to 'no way they did that'.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#117

Post by AnthonyMouse »

gpm wrote: post #107
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that imply that end-user license agreements are all unenforceable because the software was sold through a retailer, and even if it wasn't you could just a get a secondhand copy?

By my understanding EULAs are based on contract law and having a clickwrap agreement that requires you agree to it before using the software, not copyright law. Except perhaps to the extent that copyright law would prevent you from creating a derivative work that doesn't require you to agree to that clickwrap agreement prior to using the software.

How does that solve it? Alice buys the software, clicks "agree" so that it runs and then sells it to Bob who uses it without ever agreeing.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#118

Post by horsawlarway »

bitmasher9 wrote: post #112
jacquesm wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of people hacking on insulin pumps and they are lightyears ahead of commerce. If you want a very interesting rabbit hole to dive into try 'artificial pancreas hacking' as google feed. One interesting link: https://www.drugtopics.com/view/hacking-diabetes-the-diy-bio... I would trust the people that hack on these systems to be even more motivated than the manufacturers to make sure they don't fuck up,…

> it's the equivalent of flying a plane you built yourself A great analogy because people die that way. I personally would never push code to another person’s insulin pump (or advertise code as being used for an insulin pump) because I couldn’t live with the guilt if my bug got someone else killed.

And yet someone IS pushing code to these devices. Every single one.

So the question really becomes - Are these people working on their own pumps with open source more or less invested than the random programmers hired by a company that pretty clearly can't get details right around licensing, and is operating with a profit motive?

More reckless as well? Perhaps. But at least motivated by the correct incentives.

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#119

Post by austhrow743 »

cj wrote: post #115
austhrow743 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, I understand that there's a difference. That's why I sought clarification. My understanding of the concept of "basis" does not fit the context of sending an email, and "reason" is the closest I can find that fits. Basis being concerned with rules or authority. The assumption being when asking "what is the basis for X?" that there was a bar that needed to be met beyond the doers motivations. That there needed to…

That’s a very intricate and convoluted way of saying they have no basis for making a demand. But sounds like we agree, they have no real basis for making a demand.

Poorly explained maybe but it covers not just that there is no basis but that no basis is needed and draws attention to the odd request for a basis where none is needed.

Just "there is no basis" as a response would be like saying "yes" or "no" to "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Re: My insulin pump controller uses the Linux kernel. It also violates the GPL

#120

Post by cj »

austhrow743 wrote: post #119
cj wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very intricate and convoluted way of saying they have no basis for making a demand. But sounds like we agree, they have no real basis for making a demand.

Poorly explained maybe but it covers not just that there is no basis but that no basis is needed and draws attention to the odd request for a basis where none is needed. Just "there is no basis" as a response would be like saying "yes" or "no" to "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Aren’t we talking about enforcing/exercising a legal right?

Whether you have a reason to make a claim is much different than whether you have a legal basis for your claim.

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