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Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

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Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#111
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t explicitly called out in any of the other comments in my opinion so I’ll state this. Valve as a company is incredibly focused internally on its business. Its business is games, game hardware, and game delivery. For anything outside of that purview instead of trying to build a huge internal team they contract out. I’m genuinely curious why other companies don’t do this style more often because it seems incr…

I feel like I rarely see contacting out work go well. This seems like an exception

I've seen both good and bad contractors in multiple industries.

When I worked in the HFC/Fiber plant design industry, the simple act of "Don't use the same boilerplate MSA for every type of vendor" and being more specific about project requirements in the RFP makes it very clear what is expected, and suddenly we'd get better bids, and would carefully review the bids to make sure that the response indicated they understood the work.

We also had our own 'internal' cost estimates (i.e. if we had the in house capacity, how long would it take to do and how much would it cost) which made it clear when a vendor was in over their head under-bidding just to get the work, which was never a good thing.

And, I've seen that done in the software industry as well, and it worked.

That said, the main 'extra' challenge in IT is that key is that many of the good players aren't going to be the ones beating down your door like the big 4 or a WITCH consultancy will.

But really at the end of the day, the problem is what often happens is that business-people who don't really know (or necessarily -care-) about specifics enough unfortunately are the people picking things like vendors.

And worse, sometimes they're the ones writing the spec and not letting engineers review it. [0]

[0] - This once led to an off-shore body shop getting a requirement along the lines of 'the stored procedures and SQL called should be configurable' and sure enough the web.config had ALL the SQL and stored procedures as XML elements, loaded from config just before the DB call, thing was a bitch to debug and their testing alone wreaked havoc on our dev DB.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#112

I'm struggling to understand what workloads Meta might be running that are _this_ latency-critical.

It's Meta. They always push to be that fast on paper, even when it's costly to do and doesn't really need it.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#113
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And behind on a lot of stuff. The Microsoft's ACLs are nothing short of one of the best designed permission systems there are. On the surface, they are as simple as Linux UOG/rwx stuff if you want it to be, but you can really, REALLY dive into the technology and apply super specific permissions.

Oh yeah for sure. Linux is amazing in a computer science sense, but it still can't beat Windows' vertically integrated registry/GPO based permissions system. Group/Local Policy especially, since it's effectively a zero coding required system. Ubuntu just recently got a way to automate its installer (recently being during covid). I think you can do the same on RHEL too. But that's largely it on Linux right now. If you…

> Ubuntu just recently got a way to automate its installer (recently being during covid). I think you can do the same on RHEL too. But that's largely it on Linux right now. If you need to admin 10,000+ computers, Windows is still the king.

1. cloud-init support was in RHEL 7.2 which released November 19, 2015. A decade ago.

2. Checking on Ubuntu, it looks like it was supported in Ubuntu 18.04 LTS in April 2018.

3. For admining tens of thousands of servers, if you're in the RHEL ecosystem you use Satellite and it's ansible integration. That's also been going on for... about a decade. You don't need much integration though other than a host list of names and IPs.

There are a lot of people on this list handling tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of linux servers a day (probably a few in the millions).

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#114
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And behind on a lot of stuff. The Microsoft's ACLs are nothing short of one of the best designed permission systems there are. On the surface, they are as simple as Linux UOG/rwx stuff if you want it to be, but you can really, REALLY dive into the technology and apply super specific permissions.

Oh yeah for sure. Linux is amazing in a computer science sense, but it still can't beat Windows' vertically integrated registry/GPO based permissions system. Group/Local Policy especially, since it's effectively a zero coding required system. Ubuntu just recently got a way to automate its installer (recently being during covid). I think you can do the same on RHEL too. But that's largely it on Linux right now. If you…

Still the king but developing/testing/debugging group policy issues is a miserable experience.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kernel level anti-cheat with trusted execution / signed kernels is probably a reasonable new frontier for online games, but it requires a certain level of adoption from game makers.

This is a part of Secure Boot, which Linux people have raged against for a long time. Mostly because the main key signing authority was Microsoft. But here's my rub: no one else bothered to step up to be a key signer. Everyone has instead whined for 15 years and told people to disable Secure Boot and the loads of trusted compute tech that depends on it, instead of actually building and running the necessary infra for…

There are plenty of locked down computers in my life already. I don't need or want another system that only runs crap signed by someone, and it doesn't really matter whether that someone is Microsoft or Redhat. A computer is truly "general purpose" only if it will run exactly the executable code I choose to place there, and Secure Boot is designed to prevent that.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kernel level anti-cheat with trusted execution / signed kernels is probably a reasonable new frontier for online games, but it requires a certain level of adoption from game makers.

This is a part of Secure Boot, which Linux people have raged against for a long time. Mostly because the main key signing authority was Microsoft. But here's my rub: no one else bothered to step up to be a key signer. Everyone has instead whined for 15 years and told people to disable Secure Boot and the loads of trusted compute tech that depends on it, instead of actually building and running the necessary infra for…

I don't know overall in the ecosystem but Fedora has been working for me with secureboot enabled for a long time.

Having the option to disable secureboot, was probably due to backlash at the time and antitrust concerns.

Aside from providing protection "evil maid" attacks (right?) secureboot is in the interest of software companies. Just like platform "integrity" checks.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kernel level anti-cheat with trusted execution / signed kernels is probably a reasonable new frontier for online games, but it requires a certain level of adoption from game makers.

This is a part of Secure Boot, which Linux people have raged against for a long time. Mostly because the main key signing authority was Microsoft. But here's my rub: no one else bothered to step up to be a key signer. Everyone has instead whined for 15 years and told people to disable Secure Boot and the loads of trusted compute tech that depends on it, instead of actually building and running the necessary infra for…

The goals of the people mandating Secure Boot are completely opposed to the goals of people who want to decide what software they run on the computer they own. Literally the entire point of remote attestation is to take that choice away from you (e.g. because they don't want you to choose to run cheating software). It's not a matter of "no one stepped up"; it's that Epic Games isn't going to trust my secure boot key for my kernel I built.

The only thing Secure Boot provides is the ability for someone else to measure what I'm running and therefore the ability to tell me what I can run on the device I own (mostly likely leading to them demanding I run malware like like the adware/spyware bundled into Windows). I don't have a maid to protect against; such attacks are a completely non-serious argument for most people.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kernel level anti-cheat with trusted execution / signed kernels is probably a reasonable new frontier for online games, but it requires a certain level of adoption from game makers.

This is a part of Secure Boot, which Linux people have raged against for a long time. Mostly because the main key signing authority was Microsoft. But here's my rub: no one else bothered to step up to be a key signer. Everyone has instead whined for 15 years and told people to disable Secure Boot and the loads of trusted compute tech that depends on it, instead of actually building and running the necessary infra for…

I'm pro secure boot fwiw and have had it working on my of my Linux systems for awhile.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#119
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Over time they're going to touch things that people were waiting for Microsoft to do for years. I don't have an example in mind at the moment, but it's a lot better to make the changes yourself than wait for OS or console manufacturer to take action.

"It just works" sleep and hibernate. "Slide left or right" CPU and GPU underclocking.

I don't understand this comment in this context. Both of these features work on my Steam Deck. Neither of them have worked on any Windows laptop my employers have foisted upon me.

Re: Meta is using the Linux scheduler designed for Valve's Steam Deck on its servers

#120

Valve is practically singlehandedly dragging the Linux ecosystem forward in areas that nobody else wanted to touch. They needed Windows games to run on Linux so we got massive Proton/Wine advancements. They needed better display output for the deck and we got HDR and VRR support in wayland. They also needed smoother frame pacing and we got a scheduler that Zuck is now using to run data centers. Its funny to think tha…

If I'm not mistaken this has been greatly facilitated by the recent bpf based extension mechanism that allows developers to go crazy on creating schedulers and other functionality through some protected virtual machine mechanism provided by the kernel.
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