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Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

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Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#111

Post by agumonkey »

tasuki wrote: post #100
stouset wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the computer does perfectly-efficient computer things with every Joule, every single one of those Joules ends up as one Joule of waste heat. If you pull 100W of power out of an electric socket, you are heating your environment at 100W of power completely independent of what you use that electricity for.

> every single one of those Joules ends up as one Joule of waste heat. Yes it ends up as heat, but with some forethought, it could be used to eg heat people's homes rather than as waste.

These days it's not rare to have data center heated buildings. I guess crypto bros are just not thinking about this. But technically if could be done there too.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#112

Post by jo909 »

usrnm wrote: post #106
stouset wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the computer does perfectly-efficient computer things with every Joule, every single one of those Joules ends up as one Joule of waste heat. If you pull 100W of power out of an electric socket, you are heating your environment at 100W of power completely independent of what you use that electricity for.

If I turn my fan on and 100% of the electricity is converted to heat, where does the kinetic energy of moving fan blades come from? Even the Trump administration cannot just repeal the law of conservation of energy.

While spinning, the blades store a miniscule amount of kinetic energy.

After removing power even that small amount ends up as heat through friction ( both in the bearing but mostly in the air turbulence). And the blades end up in the same zero energy state: sitting still.

So it is correct that a 100% "end up" as heat

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#113

Post by epolanski »

e-dant wrote: post #41

This life is needlessly absurd. Why does this even exist? And yes, I get what mining is and I get what the blockchain does. I’m saying that proof of work is absurd.

Worse of all, many different coins have proved you can have different proofing methods and those could be applied to Bitcoin but core developers will pull any shenanigan to avoid this.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#114

Post by hackable_sand »

toenail wrote: post #88
rvba wrote: post #72

The government(s) could tax bitcoin mining servers with 1000% tax.

That would just make miners move somewhere with more favorable regulation and taxation, and nothing would change. Funny how taxes work

What do you mean nothing would change?

What does "That would just make miners move" mean to you?

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#115

Post by doctor_phil »

mnemotronic wrote: post #102

Can infrared energy be reflected like light? What would a good reflector be? (THEORETICALLY) Would a parabolic dish over this facility be able to focus the heat to a single point and, if so, what would the temp be? Is it additive? Like X joules of Y degrees over Z square meters focused down to 1 Sq cm?

Yes. Metal. No.

You want to read about "conservation of etendue" for a technical explanation. For an easier explanation, look for xkcd's excellent "Fire from Moonlight".

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#116

Post by numb7rs »

usrnm wrote: post #106
stouset wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the computer does perfectly-efficient computer things with every Joule, every single one of those Joules ends up as one Joule of waste heat. If you pull 100W of power out of an electric socket, you are heating your environment at 100W of power completely independent of what you use that electricity for.

If I turn my fan on and 100% of the electricity is converted to heat, where does the kinetic energy of moving fan blades come from? Even the Trump administration cannot just repeal the law of conservation of energy.

Even if most of the energy goes into kinetic energy of the air, that air will lose momentum via turbulence and friction with the surrounding air, which will end up as... heat.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#117

Post by supermatt »

LiamPowell wrote: post #93
devsda wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do thermophotovoltaic cells operate on different kind of heat? Is it impossible to convert heat into other forms of energy without "consuming" materials like in the case of steam, geothermal or even the ones that need a cold body to utilize thermoelectric effect.

TPVs don't rely solely on the temperature of an object being high, they instead rely on two objects on either side having different temperatures. As heat moves[1] from one side to the other some of the energy from that movement is turned in to electricity. [1]: Technically the movement itself is heat, the objects don't contain heat, rather they contain internal energy, but the two get mixed up more often than not.

That movement is effectively “consuming” the differential.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#118

Post by ajuc »

devsda wrote: post #89
Workaccount2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heat is the graveyard of energy. Everything that uses energy, or is energy, is actually just energy on it's way to the graveyard. The energy of the universe is a pool of water a top a cliff. Water running off this cliff is used to do stuff (work), and the pool at the bottom is heat. The "heat death of the universe" is referring to this water fall running dry, and all the energy being in this useless pool of "heat".

Do thermophotovoltaic cells operate on different kind of heat? Is it impossible to convert heat into other forms of energy without "consuming" materials like in the case of steam, geothermal or even the ones that need a cold body to utilize thermoelectric effect.

What thermal energy sources actually exploit is temperature difference, not heat. And in the end that difference averages out.

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#119

Post by ithkuil »

Supermancho wrote: post #78
ctmnt wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a common trope? Can’t say I’ve run into it. But I’d like to! What are some good examples?

In the book Calculating God, a character notes that this is a common civilization-wide choice. Living in virtual reality, rather than trying to expand into the vast expanses of space, is a common trope as much as it's a logical choice. It neatly explains the Fermi Paradox. In some fiction, like The Matrix, the choice might be forced due to cultural shifts, but the outcome is the same. A relatively sterile low-energy…

I wonder if it's illogical to think that all civilizations must always pick the most logical of the options

Re: Satellites reveal heat leaking from largest US cryptocurrency mining center

#120

Post by fainpul »

theamk wrote: post #2

"leaking" is the wrong word here - it implies some sort of inefficiency, process which is not working as well as it needs to. Leaky bucket, leaky faucet... That's not the case here, that center is __dumping__ heat into environment - it is by design, all that electricity is being converted into the heat. By design, it's enormous electric heater.

> By design, it's enormous electric heater.

You're right, it's not leaking, it's dumping excess heat on purpose.

However, I get triggered whenever someone uses the term "by design" wrongly. The generation of heat is not by design. It's an undesired side-effect of the computing being done. "By design" would mean that someone decided that there should be a certain amount of heat generation and made sure that it happens.

Most often I see this term misuse from developers who explain bugs as being "by design". It happens when two features interact in an undesired way that creates problems (a bug). Developers like to look at feature A in isolation, determine that it works as designed, then look at feature B, determine that it also works as designed, then they look at and understand the interaction between feature A and B and since they now understand what is happening, they claim it's "by design". However, nobody ever decided that feature A and B should interact this way. It was clearly an oversight and every normal person would agree that the interaction is undesired and a bug. But the developer says "won't fix, this is by design". Infuriating!

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