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Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

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Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#111

Post by embedding-shape »

daedrdev wrote: post #83
embedding-shape wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Limiting rent increase does not mean "Rent can never change", it just means the rate of change is limited. Owners can still raise the prices each year, it's just limited based on a lot of factors, the main one being a local index. But renovating the property for example lets owners raise the rent higher, as just one exception. > People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they hav…

People with high incomes living alone in multi bedroom units objectively should leave. The “right to housing” is a joke when the US essentially makes it illegal to build new units in most areas. Because of that restriction, rent control causes the small number of limited units to be subsided by everyone else paying more, as basic supply and demand dictates

> People with high incomes living alone in multi bedroom units objectively should leave.

Who cares how high their income is or how big the property is? If they pay the rent and want to continue living there, they should be able to continue living there. Taking someone's home away from them because "now you earn more money" or "now you're less people" sounds very inhumane, and I'm glad Spain wouldn't allow such discrimination.

I don't know why you bring up US laws, utterly irrelevant in this submission.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#112

Post by dzhiurgis »

showsover wrote: post #61
MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

[flagged]

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#113

Post by dzhiurgis »

Stevvo wrote: post #59

Georgism is the only long-term solution to this problem. It's not like there is even disagreement on that; any economist would tell you so. However, the Landed gentry have no interest in solutions.

Which problem and which economists?

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#114

Post by taproottap »

subpixel wrote: post #90
showsover wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

> The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live. This problem exists regardless of who does the buying. Where I live the locals got into the market first. Still, it's a zero-sum game, every short-term rental is a house a family cannot live in and probably c…

It is maybe a bit cannibalistic to NIMBY politics though.. I have to wonder if we won't actually get the massive housing development we need as owners consolidate and have fewer votes and little social or political clout. Hotels and smaller community landlords had their arguments to sway many around them.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#115

Post by foogazi »

asdfsfds wrote: post #97

I live in Spain. I'll give you an interesting example I've witnessed. Two of my neighbors rent seasonally on airbnb. Middle class women, one of them a widow. I assume they used to make a tidy profit. I believe they worked quite hard on making those houses pretty, and I've seen they had good reviews. Just now their license to operate has been denied, apparently without much explanation (I believe the Property Registry…

Can those drunk tourists not rent Airbnb's too ?

How is it not better for them to stay across the street at the hotel than on a flat next to a family home ?

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#116

Post by hyghjiyhu »

embedding-shape wrote: post #77
daedrdev wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it ruins the future market. People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they have it so good. Thus turnover never happens, which is why most programs have a waiting lists easily more than a decade. Like it helps those who have one at a greater expense to renters without one

Limiting rent increase does not mean "Rent can never change", it just means the rate of change is limited. Owners can still raise the prices each year, it's just limited based on a lot of factors, the main one being a local index. But renovating the property for example lets owners raise the rent higher, as just one exception. > People with a rent controlled unit will not leave even when they should, because they hav…

The "problem" is that a rent controlled apartment is some weird chimera of ownership and renting.

You could take the difference between the market rent and contract rent to calculate a subsidy. Then you could calculate the net present value of the future subsidy payments. This is often a very significant amount of money that you just lose if you move.

Another way of looking at it. Let's say you need 40sqm of space. You rent an apartment of 100sqm. These square meters don't bring you any joy of quality of life at all. If you owned you would move. If you rented at market rate you would move. But if you rent it at a controlled rent you must hold onto it for dear life because maybe you will need it when you start a family in the far future. Getting another contract this good could be very uncertain.

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#117

Post by asdfsfds »

foogazi wrote: post #115
asdfsfds wrote: post #97

I live in Spain. I'll give you an interesting example I've witnessed. Two of my neighbors rent seasonally on airbnb. Middle class women, one of them a widow. I assume they used to make a tidy profit. I believe they worked quite hard on making those houses pretty, and I've seen they had good reviews. Just now their license to operate has been denied, apparently without much explanation (I believe the Property Registry…

Can those drunk tourists not rent Airbnb's too ? How is it not better for them to stay across the street at the hotel than on a flat next to a family home ?

The Airbnbs mentioned rented throughout the year in monthly periods, so they fill a different niche. The new law kills not only short term stays but everything that goes through an online provider (except multi-year contracts).

When I first arrived here I relied on these long stay airbnbs until I could find a way through the byzantine Spanish rental process. Now this option will no longer exist.

Again, you are not familiar with Spanish politics if you think this is by accident. I have myself given up on any attempts of doing business here after I spent 1 year waiting for a certain business license and could only obtain it (in a week) after a chance friendship with a local notary. :)

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#118

Post by nradov »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

The weird thing is that in many cities there is a persistent and ongoing market failure where legitimate hotels in tourist areas often don't offer accommodations suitable for families with multiple children. There are often no hotel rooms with 3+ beds and kitchenette: it's not that they're more expensive, they simply don't exist at any price. So despite the social problems that Airbnb causes they do address a real market demand. Why aren't the hotel chains doing more to compete? What am I missing here?

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#119

Post by lm28469 »

MisterTea wrote: post #55

I was in Spain this past summer and it certainly seems they are experiencing tourist burnout. I saw anti tourist messages on banners hung on buildings, graffiti, posters and stickers in Madrid and Barcelona. Some of it was a bit threatening but I had zero issues. The issue of airbnb is a sticky one. On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you g…

> you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place.

Like a local with your fellow thousands of other tourists doing the same things, going to the same places, taking the same pictures? Traveling became the most abject consumeristic activity, there is nothing "local" left in these holiday hubs

Re: Spain fines Airbnb €65M: Why the government is cracking down on illegal rentals

#120

Post by lm28469 »

thayne wrote: post #76
showsover wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On one hand, being able to temporarily live in an apartment greatly enhances the immersiveness when your travel - you get to feel like a local and experience life in another place. Yes, if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays. Having an airbnb in your building is terrible as you don't know the people and they don't care about getting to know you. > Hotels suck…

> if your local life is being inconsiderate and having parties till 3 because you're on holidays I would expect that to be the minority of visitors. I certainly don't do that when I stay in Airbnbs. > The biggest problem here in Barcelona is that most airbnbs / short term rentals are companies buying housing as an investment and so are stealing the opportunity from actual people and families trying to live. Sure, the…

> I would expect that to be the minority of visitors.

If you live next to one the "minority" is at least once a week, usually on a workday because they're in vacation while you're not.

You get extra trash everywhere, puke in the staircase, empty bottles in front of the building, condoms thrown out of windows, &c. it's a never ending nightmare

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