Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands • Hacker News Board

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#111

Post by swat535 » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:47 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #34

dr_dshiv wrote: post #10

Come to the Netherlands! It’s awesome. And the visa is easy: just put 5k in a business account. Look up Dutch American friendship treaty.

But finding housing is brutal.

Genuinely asking, are there any country that doesn't have a housing crisis right now? From my understanding, it's everywhere in Western nations

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#112

Post by mnky9800n » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:52 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #71

ohm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

You could live in Norway. Guns are very popular there for hunting, biathalon, target shooting, etc. you can even have silencers which are banned in USA.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#113

Post by OutOfHere » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:53 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #71

ohm wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you give some examples?

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

When was the last time that guns protected someone in the US from an ICE raid? Basically never. Now imagine ICE five years in the future as a much more ingrained police state when they actively start hunting citizens.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#114

Post by mothballed » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:54 PM UTC

neilv wrote: post #96

mothballed wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

If you moved to a place that was physically safe, would gun ownership still be a top priority?

Seems paradoxical.

If I'm not allowed to have guns, then I am physically unsafe, because someone from government will use violence against me if they both discover it and have the ability to do something about it. I wouldn't feel safe anywhere violence is used for malum prohibitum 'crimes.' In fact I don't feel safe basically anywhere a government exists because they all do this; this is part the reason why I live in a rural area with basically no government services, no police, no public utilities or anything like that with involvement by the state beyond the bare minimum possible in the USA.

Your proposition also relies on the place itself not changing, and my and my offsprings atrophying their practice of skills of self defense and therefore not needing them when moving elsewhere. But sure if you had a magic wand and could trade 'no guns' for anyone for world peace, I'd take it.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#115

Post by dauertewigkeit » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:56 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #100

mvkel wrote: post #48

As an immigrant to the US, I've often viewed the fervent wish to depart (among natural born citizens) to be the ultimate form of self-entitlement. That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. It's being tested right now, and leaving is the only way to fail. Also, why do you think any other country would -love- to have you?

The evidence broadly shows that the people who vote for this will not change their mind. Not when their farming business is likely going to fail due to tariffs (~78% of farmers voted for this), not when their North Carolina saw mill that has been in the family for forty years is forced to close (Mackey’s Ferry Sawmill), not when their ACA subsidies and SNAP benefits are pulled. One's presence and voice is immaterial.…

The farmers and the sawmill operators are easily explained. I also listen to Bloomberg, lol. Those people are rich and most of their wealth is now diversified away from their businesses, and while they would rather keep those businesses alive because it's part of their family identity, they care more about reducing their taxes on their overall net worth.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#116

Post by Yizahi » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #37

justmedep wrote: post #4

Coming from Switzerland to the US: I do not want to leave. Everything is better here… maybe not for the average person but for some individuals.

When you say 'everything is better' are you just talking about higher compensation > *? Cause I can think a number of 'quality of life' things that europe does better.

Money can buy quality of life, and people earning 100-150k in USA per person in household do confirm this. And this purchasing ability is not linear, because of the fixed costs for many good and services. Previously many countries with low salaries had corresponding low cost of life (and cost of quality of life), but today the costs are rising faster than salaries everywhere across the globe, so the biggest winners are people who earn more in absolute values, hence rich Americans.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#117

Post by toomuchtodo » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

dauertewigkeit wrote: post #115

toomuchtodo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The evidence broadly shows that the people who vote for this will not change their mind. Not when their farming business is likely going to fail due to tariffs (~78% of farmers voted for this), not when their North Carolina saw mill that has been in the family for forty years is forced to close (Mackey’s Ferry Sawmill), not when their ACA subsidies and SNAP benefits are pulled. One's presence and voice is immaterial.…

The farmers and the sawmill operators are easily explained. I also listen to Bloomberg, lol. Those people are rich and most of their wealth is now diversified away from their businesses, and while they would rather keep those businesses alive because it's part of their family identity, they care more about reducing their taxes on their overall net worth.

Please explain the ACA subsidies and SNAP benefit cuts to rural republican voters who will still vote for this then. Are these people going to change their vote? Again, likely not. Their mental model and their identity is rigid (along with a bit of in group and tribalism) and they will very likely vote this way to the very end. You can live a better life by leaving while waiting for these voters to age out, because you cannot change their mind or their vote. If you stay, you will be exposed to governance outcomes from their votes.

You can think of it as the grey rock method in a political and expat context. You don't engage, doing so would be of no value; you just ignore and leave. Life is short, optimize accordingly.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnist/2025/10/30/...

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/5325977-trump-budget-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_rock_method

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#118

Post by Bender » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:57 PM UTC

titanomachy wrote: post #91

mothballed wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

I think relatively few people choose their home based on “where can I have the most guns and least oversight on banking”. But I suspect that the people who care about these things care about them a LOT.

For me it was a factor to some degree. I am not a firearm collector. For me it was knowing that I was moving from a state that hates firearms and wants to justify law enforcement budgets by punishing anyone that defends themselves to a state that not only has very few restrictions on firearms and ammo but also actively and legally supports people defending themselves and their neighbors. That was just one of many factors however. No state income tax was also a big plus for me personally.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#119

Post by mothballed » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:58 PM UTC

mnky9800n wrote: post #112

mothballed wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guns and (relatively) freedom of speech (yes I'm aware it comes with asterisk) are the two big ones. If I left the USA it would probably be to a place with weak governance on these points in practice rather than on paper. Only Yemen, Iraq, Somaliland, parts of Pakistan, parts of Rojava and maybe KRG (Kurdistan), Idlib, and Palestine are only places I know of with looser (to me better) gun laws than America and out of…

You could live in Norway. Guns are very popular there for hunting, biathalon, target shooting, etc. you can even have silencers which are banned in USA.

Not a bad choice. I'd probably pick Greenland out of the European (Denmark I think?) jurisdiction territory. You can buy bolt action rifles like a hammer at hardware store. They are looser than the USA on that point, though I didn't initially include them because they are stricter on most everything else. But open carrying a rifle probably isn't frowned upon in Greenland, so it might not matter that you can't carry a handgun.

Re: Leaving the U.S. for the Netherlands

#120

Post by jadyoyster » Wed, Dec 10, 2025, 4:58 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #89

wing-_-nuts wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Taxes are also very high. In addition to the usual income taxes, you pay a wealth tax and the threshold is very low (around 55k EUR in savings/assets) so this isn't only targeting very rich people. This makes it a pretty bad place to live if you care about investing and saving for the future. This was a deal breaker for me as someone on the FIRE path. It's neighbor, Belgium, is much better in this respect.

FIRE people are funny, I wouldn't retire in belgium even if I was paid for it personally. Do you just order by tax rate and move wherever the number is the smallest ? I never heard of anyone moving to Belgium for anything other than family or cross border workers

Because Belgium didn't have capital gains tax it was actually common to (fake) retire to Belgium for wealthy individuals. There's supposed to be a capital gains tax from 2026 though.