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The web runs on tolerance

shkspr.mobi

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Re: The web runs on tolerance

#111

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

echelon wrote: post #30
Mathnerd314 wrote: post #4

But in contrast, web communities run on moderation, i.e. a sort of intolerance of bad content. The lesson is that technical issues and social issues really don't mix. You can't conclude anything from one versus the other. Case in point, cryptocurrency was supposed to be the anarchist's dream, but now it's being adopted by some central banks.

The internet I grew up on barely had any moderation at all. Or polarization. Or algorithms that feed on that polarization. I grew up in a conservative, religious family. The internet, forums, and IRC exposed me to lots of ideas outside my upbringing and helped shape who I am today. I was already starting to really dig biology, science, and evolution as a teenager. Early internet culture helped tip the scale. I'm now…

> Stop the extreme polarization

LITERALLY THIS. I hope I can stress more point on it but we need to stop extreme polarization and the social media and how its centralized and controlled by a few too.

> We're building 1984 and thinking it serves us. It doesn't.

You just have to convince the masses that 1984 is something that serves them when it doesn't and sell that I suppose to seize power yourself bribed by lobbying too.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#112

Post by Imustaskforhelp »

curtisblaine wrote: post #82

This article is a prime example of false equivalence. The cool thing about false equivalence is that, when you throw the laws of logic out of the window, you can prove pretty much everything. Anyone can write a specular article proving that intolerance is actually good since very stricter programming languages (like Rust and its borrow checker) are inherently safer.

I agree, thank you for giving me the word to this and giving an explaination too

I just believe that there are ways to systemetically prove both of these things independently and I am not sure about the XHTML and other debate but here is my thoughts on "tolerance" itself

I don't think that there is an inherent purpose is life, we have to build one for ourselves, what is the most rare thing in the universe, its not any material or power or anything worth having but rather friendships and enjoyments and treating people as the ends and not means to something. (My own summary-ish from Everything is fcked by Mark manson, not the best writer but I was young when I read the book and so maybe I can recommend it)

Then reading about how to win friends and influence people, One of the key points I took from it is to be more agreeable and try to find common points you can work upon and set aside the differences and thus tolerance and there are 10 s of example from the book where I can share but basically debates help noone if they become petty, if we have disagreements they should be respectful in a way...

These are my views on how to treat everyone equally I guess which I might wish to be applied to myself too so thats why I apply it too others or try to in a way too

Personally I hate extremism from both sides since I feel that its bad but I can understand why people can get extremism from both sides and I try to give them chances to try to improve the situation from mediocre opinions if someone is too extremist from any side if I can be honest.

I think extremism in general is bad I guess tho. Fck social media for making everyone nowadays so extremist tho. The only people I am extremist towards is big tech when you realize that facebook targets young girls and sees if they delete their photos, they are insecure and shoves beauty ads on their face.

This behaviour is really sickening and I think we can all agree that.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#113

Post by Artoooooor »

>The disrespect shown to anyone for deviating from the One True Path made it an unwelcoming and unfriendly place.

Standards are the One True Path. That's why they are standards. I see no disrespect in enforcing them. Even more - the ones not following them and forcing users to burn additional CPU cycles because browsers have to assume they may be parsing crap are the disrespectful ones. Come on, it's not that hard, especially with help of IDEs.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#114

Post by charcircuit »

wredcoll wrote: post #63
charcircuit wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not want to work with people who are obnoxious, mentally unstable, love stirring drama, self centered, controlling, etc. These attributes can make it hard to work with others, or waste time that could have been spent actually building a good product for end users. Of course people are not robots, they have emotions and attitudes that are variable so some people will exhibit these qualities some of the time, but…

It's weird that you associate those qualities with the minorities currently being discriminiated against.

The scenario was not about people being discriminated against. It was about the way people handle and react to the language of others.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#116

Post by Artoooooor »

bitwize wrote: post #70

Postel's Law was one of those Great Mistakes of computing, alongside null pointers, fork(2), and well, C in general. Conform to the spec or be in error. If you allow for sloppiness, you create a problem because different implementations will tolerate different kinds of sloppiness, yielding incompatibilities and horrors like "quirks mode". XHTML tried to rein this in but by then the cat was out of the bag, and every T…

Maybe developers should be held to stricter standards than their users. I can demand developers to close tags they are expected to close. But users should be allowed to provide their document numbers as "12345" "123 45" or "12-34-5" if all these notations are used in their country.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#117

Post by amanaplanacanal »

zozbot234 wrote: post #104
arp242 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He talks about "throw[ing of] slurs" and "denying rights to others", "wishing violence on people because of their heritage", and that type of thing. Does not besetting people with slurs count as "diversity" now? Do you think these people will be able to do good technical work if they're constantly beset by this kind of thing? Or do you think they will retreat to somewhere where they don't have to do with that? And se…

> Does not besetting people with slurs count as "diversity" now? It depends whom you ask! There are certainly some people both off- and on-line who seem to think that uniformly slurring all white, male, cis-sexual, whatever folks as "oppressors" - and even occasionally suggesting, apparently as a serious political proposal, that "Whiteness" (whatever that means) is something that should be forcibly done away with - i…

I suspect this is a pretty fringe position. I read quite a bit of center to left coded media, and I haven't seen it.

I will say that I'm not on Facebook, Instagram, or tiktok though, so I might be missing a cultural moment.

I have seen people point out that the concept of "whiteness" has shifted over time, and doesn't really have an immutable meaning.

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#118

Post by conartist6 »

didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

I didn't get a far as that because I just read through the massive list of enormous security problems caused by loose HTML parsing and that's the exact opposite of cultural accessibility. It requires arcane knowledge and rare skill then to be competent and safe. Tearing down those artificial barriers is how we let more people in!!

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#119

Post by DeathArrow »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #93
47282847 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I couldn't care less You do care , otherwise you would not even have thought about it twice, let alone comment. The most striking argument against this line of reasoning is that there is no possibility for you not to act politically. By ignoring the issue of systemic discrimination (“don’t care don’t personally discriminate”) you actively contribute to and participate in the systemic discrimination. It’s a choice,…

I have a hard time following this line of reasoning. I don't think GP's point is to "ignore systemic discrimination". Rather, it is to ignore those things on which people are discriminated. How can you discriminate against, say, race, if you don't pay attention to the person's race? Specifically, for tech, if you happen upon a code written by someone called "didgetmaster" on github, and the author makes no comment ab…

You are technically right if the goal is to stop ANY kind of discrimination. But is that the goal?

Re: The web runs on tolerance

#120

Post by strken »

didgetmaster wrote: post #7

This guy lost me when he started talking about diversity issues instead of tech. I couldn't care less about the race, gender, or sexual orientation of the person(s) who created the hardware or software that I use. Does it work? Is it easy to understand and use? These are the things I am interested in. I am reminded of an early cartoon of a dog sitting at a computer saying 'On the Internet, no one knows you are a dog!…

One of the interesting things about the internet is that almost anyone who runs a web browser on their phone is using a processor designed by Sophie Wilson, a trans woman, to run a language designed by Brendan Eich, a guy who donated money to oppose gay marriage and then lost the spot as head honcho of Mozilla because of it. I often think about this and wonder if the two of them ever met, or what would have happened if they did.

The internet doesn't run on "tolerance"; it runs on actual, real neutrality, which enforces tolerance by making anything else impossible. You cannot possibly stop gay people accessing your website any more than you can prevent homophobes or drug dealers or AI startups or North Koreans or fascists. You can ban behaviour but it's impossible to ban classes of people without real-life action.

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