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Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

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Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#111

Post by throwawaylaptop »

olyjohn wrote: post #103
Zak wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to view them with disdain - a clearly obsolete design GM kept using because they're cheap or lazy or some such. I no longer hold that view. GM's pushrod V8s are considerably smaller than their competition, and lightweight relative to their displacement, for which there is famously no replacement.

Turbos are the replacement for displacement.

Ok, stick a huge turbo on a 100cc engine and power my 1 ton pickup please. Id like it to feel quick in traffic but also tow a few thousand lbs uphill without really noticing it.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#112

Post by Animats »

This little 20HP one-cylinder Diesel engine [1] powers much of third world agriculture. The original design seems to have come from Shanghai Engine Company in 1953, and is still manufactured by multiple companies. It's water-cooled, but non-recirculating; you have to fill the water tank when you fill the fuel tank. No electrical components at all. Starts with a hand crank.

Over 75 years of production of that design. It's the AK-47 of engines.

[1] https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/High-Quality-Manufact...

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#113

Post by TacticalCoder »

TheCondor wrote: post #65
pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

The Jag XK platform had 45+ year run. I'd bet that as long as the 911 is made, it'll have an inline 6 and to someone's thinking it will be the same platform as the air-cooled version from 1964. Engine architectures tend to last unless they are bad. They can do a lot on one also, the Toyota GR platform started out as a fairly vanilla V-6 but it has variations with GDI and variations with turbochargers and has been use…

> 45+ year run... I'd bet that as long as the 911 is made...

Hardly. The first Porsche 901 came out in 1963 (and was renamed 911 for Peugeot had the right to "901" for car models even though they never used it).

That's 62 years that the 911 exists now.

Heck my 911 Carrera is now 38 years old and it's a late 80s one.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#114

Post by dieselgate »

kleiba wrote: post #15

I don't think that lack of reliability is the key factor for why new motors are still being developed. Fuel efficiency or changing emission standards are two points that come to mind that drive further optimizations.

Yes, particularly for diesel engines.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#115

Post by throwawaylaptop »

bch wrote: post #108
roflchoppa wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coolant sure, my RSX has a radiator leak for the past 2 years. Oil not so much.

I had a friend who had a Honda (edit: actually, Toyota iirc) for ~15 years that didn’t know it had oil; So when they sold it and was asked how often the oil was changed, the potential buyer was met with a quizzical look. Tires and gasoline and window washer fluid was its maintenance.

I find that a bit hard to believe. Someone in that family knew and took care of it sometimes.

The longest I've seen a used car go without an oil change was 40k miles and it was changed when it started making noise instantly on startup. That was basically 90k to 130k. Sure 0 to 40k would go a bit better.. but not 15 years of typical driving.

Between carbon blowby, gasoline dilution, oil burning at the rings/cylinder walls even if minimal, no car is making it 15 years if the person drives more than 5k miles a year IMO.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#116

Post by throwawaylaptop »

jabl wrote: post #90
bluGill wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my favorite tractors was the old Oil Pull's which were designed for oil in the radiator. (they were a gas engine, but designed to run on "tractor fuel" which is closer to diesel than gasoline - in order to work the engine had to be very hot)

It's of course possible to design engines to be oil cooled, though water-glycol tends to be preferred due to about twice the specific heat capacity, meaning smaller coolant channels, radiators, and fans are required.

Is it specific heat that we care about, or rate of heat transfer? Specific heat matters a bit, but if you make your coolant take twice the energy to change 1 degree, the same thing happens on the radiator side and you must release twice the heat to cool 1 degree.

Rate of heat transfer in general if probably more important.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#117

Post by throwawaylaptop »

bluGill wrote: post #74
jfindper wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> other owners say it runs fine without coolant, oil, etc - just keeps plugging along. This is called lying. They are lying.

Depends on what you are asking of the engine. An engine at red line but under no load doesn't generate that much heat, and so can get by with no coolant, and run for a long time on just the oil film left after draining the oil. This is really bad for the engine and it will wear out much faster - but it will run for a surprisingly long time.

These are random little examples that might work in theory. Sure, a car can idle for an hour without coolant probably in the winter, possibly.

I can't be driven on the street in any meaningful way anywhere but a Minnesota winter.

If you can't drive to work 20 miles away in 75 degree weather without coolant, than no a car can't run without coolant.

And no it can't run without oil in any meaningful way on the street for more than maybe 15 minutes.. so again, no Honda Toyotas are no built so well that they run without oil.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#118

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

pmontra wrote: post #30

That's a series of engines, not a single model. The FIAT FIRE [1] series has been in production for 36 years from 1985 to 2021 and, maybe you wouldn't expect it from FIAT, those engines were reliable. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fully_Integrated_Robotised_Eng...

Meh, GM 3800 had a good 40+ years of production (although some of those years were 3rd party,) I'd take one of those over a FIRE.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#119

Post by whaleofatw2022 »

Grosvenor wrote: post #63
skywal_l wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I counter you with a Cleon engine[0] with 42 years. ;) But in the end an engine can be reliable but still be an environmental liability. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renault_Cl%C3%A9on-Fonte_engin...

I’ll counter with the jaguar xk engine in production for 43 years. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaguar_XK_engine I assume the American s will be by with a pushrod v8 soon.

Actually I'll give a V6 instead:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buick_V6_engine

1961-2008.

Re: Japanese four-cylinder engine is so reliable still in production after 25 years

#120

Post by buildsjets »

Japanese cars can be amazingly reliable. My wife drives a 2003 Toyota Celica (a sporty Corolla) and I drive a 2003 Audi A4. They both have about the same miles, around 150k. The A4 has had thousands and thousands of dollars worth things fail the years. There is a lot of extra Audi tech stuff to break of course, but even common things like oil seals and water pumps and wheel bearings just seem to require more frequent maintenance than our Japanese cars.

The Toyota, since new, has needed 2 sets of tires and 1 set of brake pads, both normal wear-out items. The air conditioner relay has failed twice, at a cost of ~$15 to replace. The newer part number has a higher amp capacity and seems to be holding up fine since then. The driver side door lock actuator failed once.

It almost gets it's preventative maintenance missed, because nothing ever breaks to jog your mind that the car needs to be maintained.

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