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AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

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111–120 of 195 posts

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#111
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The moral comes from the grassroots as power corrupts. As long as we wait for a godlike leader for rescue the end result is same as with Stalin, Hitler, Trump, Thiel, Epstein, Musk, ... The godlikeness can come though in many forms, political (Trump), propaganda (Musk/Zuck7Thiel) or via extortion material and money like Epstein. A good litmus test for a decision maker is the universal ethical principle mentioned in t…

Power reveals rather than corrupt: it's easy to act moral when there are consequences (real or imagined) when you don't, but you see someone's true self when they know they could get away with it. For example, this is why the way someone treats service workers is a good indicator of someone's character.

Yup.

I'm looking this via the lens of moral development where:

Pre-conventional level is the narcissist me-me-me level, that seems to dominate the geopolitics and tech.

Conventional is most of us as the sheep. This level follows the loudest crowd that right now is the pre-conventional.

Post-conventional is the few that can do standalone thinking and morals.

Most conventionals can though understand the difference between and also the outcome we're headed to with the pre-conventional human gods, but we need to build the normalcy for the post-conventional ones together and make it structural.

My hunch is that first step could be to start the discussion on what is excessive on personal level. Consumption, wealth, political power.

Something like Mamdani or Polanski have showed, only more blunt. The majority of people are waking up that the current trajectory means the end of the world and extinction after the short period of accelerationist-dystopian hellscape.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#112
post #5

An idea that has been living rent free in my head is that "AI is ultimately nothing but a pure destruction of value". It's promise is unlimited value to everyone on demand; but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. Value and scarcity go hand in hand. I realize the hyperbolic framing of the idea, but none-the-less I haven't been able to get it out of my head. This article feels li…

> Value and scarcity go hand in hand Not really. The value to a thirsty soul of water in the desert is as high as they value their own life (to some there is little) and have a currency of value to the seller. Still, once thirst is quenched the value to that soul drops nearer to zero. For an optional good the value only rises to the point that there is excess asset in the inventories of those that would like to add t…

I do not think value and scarcity are identical, merely that they go hand in hand. In the desert, I would pay a lot of money for water. In the west, I would never pay for a glass of water, even if it's blistering hot and I'm parched. The requirement is the same, the value only changes due to scarcity.

What you are talking about is needs, which is an entirely different discussion. Value can also be used to discuss needs (how valuable is something to survive), but I think I'm quite clearly using it to describe something different.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#114
This argument forgets one very important fact:

"We’re in a narrow window where institutional choices still matter, where there’s enough distributed economic and political power to reshape who controls AI infrastructure and how its benefits flow."

China has AI infrastructure and has made it very clear how its benefits flow. Not to people, "despite" China being communist. In other words we can't do this unless we were to stop China first, or China honestly cooperates, which they've never done. And if you don't do that, then your institutions can only sabotage our side.

You want to exercise control, fine, but first need to have that control.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#115
post #5

An idea that has been living rent free in my head is that "AI is ultimately nothing but a pure destruction of value". It's promise is unlimited value to everyone on demand; but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. Value and scarcity go hand in hand. I realize the hyperbolic framing of the idea, but none-the-less I haven't been able to get it out of my head. This article feels li…

When something becomes abundant, we focus on something else which is still scarce. That's human nature. Salt used to be scarce and very valuable, but nowadays who thinks about it?

Yes but what happens to society when art, labor, "intelligence" and productivity all become abundant? These are not comparable to salt. You are comparing an apple to every orange tree that has ever existed.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#116
post #5

An idea that has been living rent free in my head is that "AI is ultimately nothing but a pure destruction of value". It's promise is unlimited value to everyone on demand; but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. Value and scarcity go hand in hand. I realize the hyperbolic framing of the idea, but none-the-less I haven't been able to get it out of my head. This article feels li…

Is water less valuable because it comes out of a tap almost for no money?

Yes

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#117
post #5

An idea that has been living rent free in my head is that "AI is ultimately nothing but a pure destruction of value". It's promise is unlimited value to everyone on demand; but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable. Value and scarcity go hand in hand. I realize the hyperbolic framing of the idea, but none-the-less I haven't been able to get it out of my head. This article feels li…

> but if everyone can do everything without any effort, it is no longer valuable.

And how is this a bad thing? Would it be good for oxygen to be valuable, or water?

What's with this fetishistic obsession with "value"? What's bad about living in a world where nothing holds any value whatsoever?

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When something becomes abundant, we focus on something else which is still scarce. That's human nature. Salt used to be scarce and very valuable, but nowadays who thinks about it?

Yes but what happens to society when art, labor, "intelligence" and productivity all become abundant? These are not comparable to salt. You are comparing an apple to every orange tree that has ever existed.

We focus on colonisation of Universe and becoming a Kardashev Type III civilisation. Literally that.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#119
post #38

I opened 10 PRs in 20 minutes today and it felt great. If I extrapolate that to everything else with a straight line then everything looks good /s

I fixed a bunch of nitpicky PR comments just by saying "PR 69 has some comments, fix the issues" to Claude. It opened the PR automatically, took the comments and applied the fixes (renaming a few things, simple refactoring and added a few unit tests). Effort from me: maybe 5 minutes going through the PR comments and deciding they were super simple monkey work and 10 seconds typing instructions for Claude. Then maybe…

> maybe 5 minutes going through the PR comments and deciding they were super simple monkey work

There’s an old joke about a mechanic banging a hammer on a car and charging $1000 for it.

Man us engineers severely undervalue each other’s worth huh. One thing all this AI hype has taught me is I’ve started to be very conscious of what my value is. It’s a hard habit to break.

Re: AI Is Breaking the Moral Foundation of Modern Society

#120

AI could be a boon for mankind. it can be a useful tool. We could employ it in a manner which provides more dignity for workers. That is, let them work less hours, have more leisure time etc. That necessitates something which will keep the powers of capital in check, and people don't seem to think that this is possible. Corporations are just so large and powerful, that people feel hopeless. Byt we could still get tog…

Why not go to Haiti if it so good there? No doubt US (or basically 90% of other gov.) are shit, but Haiti must be one of the worst.
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